“That’s A Wrap” with your hosts, Chris and Eddie
SHOW NOTES:
That's a wrap!
Season 2 of The Weight is now finished. With this last episode, Chris and Eddie take some time to reflect back on this second season. All the wonderful guests. All the inspiring, heavy, important topics: mental health, racism, art and culture, creation care, faith and politics, human sexuality.
Don't skip out on this episode though. We think you might be inspired to go back check out some previous episodes. And, surprisingly, Chris and Eddie actually have a few nuggets of wisdom to share themselves. 😂
To our guests, thank you!
To our listeners, thank you!
We're already busy making plans and recording episodes for Season 3 of The Weight. See you soon!
TRANSCRIPT:
Eddie Rester 0:00
I'm Eddie Rester.
Chris McAlilly 0:01
I'm Chris McAlilly. Welcome to The Weight.
Eddie Rester 0:03
Today we have very special guests, plural. Very special guests today.
Chris McAlilly 0:07
We do.
Eddie Rester 0:08
Chris, why don't you introduce one of our guests, and then I'll introduce the other.
Chris McAlilly 0:11
Well, coming in at about a whopping 175 pounds, maybe a little bit less. I don't know.
Eddie Rester 0:19
Do you think I'm 175 pounds?
Chris McAlilly 0:22
I don't know. That's so strange. I was going to introduce you as if you were like a pro wrestler or something. It didn't work out.
Eddie Rester 0:29
Because people think of me when they think.
Chris McAlilly 0:31
You're the special guest today.
Eddie Rester 0:33
That's right. And you are the special guest.
Chris McAlilly 0:35
That's right. Today's a wrap up episode for our second season here on the podcast. And it's been a great season.
Eddie Rester 0:42
It's been a wide-ranging season. We made a decision at the beginning of the year to really begin to maybe clump some conversations together.
Chris McAlilly 0:51
Clump is such a funny word. You could say a different word than clump.
Eddie Rester 0:55
What if we organized by conversation? So we did.
Chris McAlilly 0:59
Structure. Structure is a better word.
Eddie Rester 1:01
Okay.
Chris McAlilly 1:01
Yeah.
Eddie Rester 1:01
Faith and politics. We did race. We did the environment, mental health. And I think for me, it helped me really consider questions and how we wanted to have conversations, because it wasn't just one-off conversations this year.
Chris McAlilly 1:19
I think that there are... Any topic that is worth exploring, there's nuance and there are different perspectives, and so this way of structuring the season, I think, gave us an opportunity to look at different angles and to do that over the course of a few weeks. And I think that maybe one of the places where I saw that really being helpful was in the religious lives of young people series. That was one for me that...
Chris McAlilly 1:54
We interviewed three different folks. One was Christian Smith, who's a sociologist, and he gave us this really big picture, and I'd been reading his work for some of the research that I'd done a couple years ago and found his perspective really helpful. But once we laid the big picture in the landscape, then we kind of got into with Andrew Root and Amanda Drury a little bit more kind of what does this look like on the ground for people who are actually practicing ministry in the church? What do young people's lives look like? And then what did they need to really flourish? And really, where we landed was testimony, storytelling, the importance of storytelling, and that ultimately, I think, ended up being a theme throughout the whole season. We had a number of writers, memoirists, and people who were telling their story. Which one of those writers was maybe most impactful to you?
Eddie Rester 2:49
You know, I think a couple of them. David McGee's memoir, "Dear William," just because we know David and his family so well and love them so much, to get to experience that memoir. Maybe the most delightful memoir, though, was Aimee Nezhukumatathil's memoir, "A World of Wonders."
Chris McAlilly 3:11
Yeah, Aimee's book, really, the way that she described it, I can't remember if it was on the podcast, or just before or after, she described it as like your favorite indie band that you follow from some small venue and then all of a sudden it hits the top of the charts. Aimee's memoir, "World of Wonders," ended up being on the New York Times bestseller list top five. It was like Barack Obama, Matthew McConaughey, Michelle Obama, Aimee Nezhukumatathil. And so what her the memoir is, really it's a nature story. She's looking at different creatures, different aspects of creation, and using that as a way to think about her family history, her personal narrative, and it was really beautiful, a lot of ways then.
Chris McAlilly 4:00
I think Aimee's book was good. And really, I guess another theme, it's not just writing, but art and the importance, the ways in which art can help to shape our imaginations. One of the most popular episodes of the whole season, if you just look at numbers of who you guys were listening to, was an episode with James K. A. Smith on healing the imagination. What do you remember from that conversation, Eddie?
Eddie Rester 4:31
That that was a long time. I do remember that people that I knew from all over the US were reaching out to me to thank me, to thank us for that episode. I would have to go back and listen to that. When when I lay something down, it goes away.
Chris McAlilly 4:50
No, that happens. You know, I'd see somebody on the street or, you know, somebody would reach out and say, "Man, that episode was really good." And it would just be completely gone.
Eddie Rester 5:01
Because we recorded so early. One of the series, though, that I'll tell you that I had some interesting conversations about, which was unexpected to me was the birth and motherhood series. We've got two dads here talking to folks, Elizabeth Hagan, Julie Gunby, and Beth Ann Fennelly, about motherhood. And I had conversations with several women who said, "I'm so thankful that you had those conversations," from older women who were mothering their own mothers, from younger women who were experiencing just the devastation of losing pregnancies. And one woman, in fact, was like, "I've thought for years I needed to start a ministry to start open conversations with young women like me, who've experienced the loss of pregnancy." And so just knowing that it empowered someone to really begin to think about how they can use their story to impact other people's stories.
Eddie Rester 6:01
And for me, I think that's the win of the podcast, when people hear and it calls them in some way or form to act differently, to think differently, to hope differently. And for me, that's this year, I got to have a lot of those conversations with people not just locally, but when I would travel, getting to have conversations with folks who listen to the podcast.
Chris McAlilly 6:26
Yeah. And we had some powerhouse women on this season. I mean, if you look through, just kind of looking back through the list, Kate Bowler, speaking of someone who is using the opportunity to tell her story, Kate Bowler, if you don't know, was diagnosed with cancer, stage four cancer at age 35. And she's been unpacking that in a number of books. The one that we talked to her about is the one that came out this year called "No Cure for Being Human." And Kate Bowler is one woman that just has a powerful story.
Chris McAlilly 7:03
I think about Heather Toney, who was the first female African American mayor of Greenville, Mississippi and has ended up doing work in creation care. Tish Warren now has a newsletter in the New York Times, and she writes about her experience with really despair and darkness and the way in which the historic practices of prayer gave her some orientation in the midst of that. So yeah, the women on the podcast this year were really, really powerful.
Eddie Rester 7:38
One of the episodes, it wasn't part of a series, it was just an episode that I was so thankful that Dr. Russell Moore gave us some time. Not long after we released that episode--not because we released that episode--but not long after we released the episode, he stepped aside from his position within the Southern Baptist Convention.
Chris McAlilly 8:01
It was a big cultural moment.
Eddie Rester 8:02
It was a big moment.
Chris McAlilly 8:04
He could have dropped that right here on the podcast. He could have mic dropped.
Eddie Rester 8:08
And walked away.
Chris McAlilly 8:09
But he did that.
Eddie Rester 8:09
He didn't do that. Although I will say before the podcast, we always ask our guests before we start recording the podcast, "What's something you want to make sure we talk about? What's something you want to make sure we don't talk about?" We want to make sure we have some guardrails on every conversation. We don't want to step over anything. And one of the things he told us before, "Hey, right now, I don't want to talk about denominational politics." And I think for him at that moment, there was a lot going on behind the scenes.
Eddie Rester 8:34
But his conversation about dying church, I've heard echoed in what other people are writing right now. That it's not that the church doesn't have faithful people. It's that people outside, people inside the church, not outside the church, are now looking around saying, what have I committed myself to? What's going on in the life of the church? Does the church really believe what it says or not? And it's not just that folks outside the church are critiquing the church. But there has begun a very significant, particularly in the evangelical world, an internal conversation about what are we doing, and why are we doing it. And though that's troubling to many people, and it's painful, I think it's a very important conversation for us right now coming out of COVID, facing this world that we're in.
Chris McAlilly 9:25
Yeah, I think that the conversation that Russell Moore is having, really the backdrop of that is this larger conversation about the place of the Christian church in American culture, and particularly, as it relates to American politics. And that's really how we began the year was talking about faith and politics. We were coming out of an election season and really, you know, of that first series, the conversation about faith and politics, the one that that I've continued to think about through the year is the one that we have with Luke Bretherton. Becaus what Luke Bretherton is doing, he's a political theologian, and he is making the case that Christians have a vested interest in the project of democracy. And that looks like neighborhood community organizing. It looks like participating in local school boards. It looks like a very localized political activity that is oriented towards Christ and the common good. And I think that the common good is always going to include people like you and not like you, people who agree you agree with and that you don't agree with. But at the end of the day, you live in the same place, and you're committed to the same, you know, patch of ground, and you've got to figure out a way.
Chris McAlilly 10:48
You can, a lot of people are, moving to places, new places, different places, where they can be with like-minded people and like-minded tribes. But the reality is, you can't avoid people that don't think like you. You have to find a way towards common life. And I think that Luke really helps to orient us in that direction. Yeah,
Eddie Rester 11:08
I loved the local push that he gave, because so much of our political angst is aimed at the national political scene. And the truth is, we have no power there. And what we see in the inertia of national political conversations is that there's not really much power or impetus for change there. If we want to change the world, we change it locally. You know, someone once said that if you really want to make a difference in the world, don't run for president. Run for mayor. And I think that's what he's pushing us to do. How can we, where we are, have conversations that need to happen to heal?
Chris McAlilly 11:52
Is this the moment where you want to tell folks that you're putting your name in the hat against Robyn Tannehill?
Eddie Rester 11:58
That's right.
Chris McAlilly 11:58
Eddie Rester's coming for you.
Eddie Rester 11:59
Three and a half years from now. That's right, three and a half years from now.
Chris McAlilly 12:03
He starts. Are you opening your PAC?
Eddie Rester 12:06
It may take... Yeah I'm opening my local PAC, because it's gonna take probably several million and all sorts of things to unseat her locally. Robyn, if you don't know, if you're not familiar with Oxford, Robyn Tannehill is our mayor. She and I and her husband were friends in college, and she has done an amazing job of bringing different voices to the table and thinking about how we build a strong community. I'm just trying to back out of the hole you dug for me.
Chris McAlilly 12:34
[LAUGHTER] Sorry. Speaking of different voices, that's a good segue to really, you know, the series that had the most engagement this year, the most popular episode was in a series we did on human sexuality. We talked to people that have a range of different views. And you know, this is a series that really emerges out of our particular denomination, our tribe, and we interviewed two people, Adam Hamilton and Tim Tennant, who fundamentally disagree on their understanding of the Bible and its interpretation, and then the implications of the church's engagement with American culture right now. And I think that we had a lot of conversations about that afterwards. And I think, for me, that, I mean, it was just a reminder, there are not a lot of spaces in the church for honest and robust, rigorous disagreement. And I think that having an opportunity to hear people out, I think was one of the gifts of that particular series.
Eddie Rester 13:41
Yeah, and it was one of those things because our goal was to hear them out, folks, I think, you know, pushed back a little bit. But, as we stated at the beginning of those episodes, the goal was not to fight to convince, and it wasn't to convince listeners of what they were doing was right or wrong, but provide a space so that people could hear maybe some help of why they believe what they believe, or at least to hear, "Oh, this is why the person I disagree with believes what they believe." I think it was important and people listened to those episodes this year. And so I'm thankful for both Adam Hamilton and Tim Tennant for taking the time to spend time with us.
Eddie Rester 13:41
I want to, a couple things I want to do before I forget: one is, I want to thank all of you who are listening. Our listenership this year spiked about 44%, which is unbelievable. And that's because so many of you have continued to listen but also have shared the podcast with friends and family and, you know, folks that you're in the journey with or having conversations with, and I want to thank you for that. The other thing that I've really learned this year is there really, you just said it, there aren't a lot of spaces for people to have conversations with people they agree with and disagree with in a robust way. And that can be, because it's different. I think sometimes people aren't sure what to do with it.
Chris McAlilly 15:17
Yeah, I mean, we tribe up, you know, that's the tendency is people kind of get with their tribes. And I understand that because we need to, because the world is disorienting, and we can feel lonely. I feel that sometimes, and I think it's easy to, if you're feeling disoriented, and you feel like you're kind of losing your bearings, one of the first questions is, where are my people, right? And where's the space and a place where I can belong, where I don't have to apologize for who I am and I can express and talk through and work out a vision to the world with people who understand who I am and what I believe? And I do think that those spaces are important. And I do think it's important for folks to be able to work those convictions out.
Chris McAlilly 16:10
I guess, I don't know, maybe it's the pandemic, maybe it's the time and space that I've had to pray and reflect. I guess I'm less interested in those projects of creating a tribe. I'm more interested in trying to find the points of connection between tribes. I'm more interested in helping one tribe understand another and to create opportunities for people to listen deeply to the humanity of another person, regardless of their convictions. There was a, I can't remember who it was we were talking to, they talked about what they are looking for in the world is not like-minded people, but like-hearted people.
Chris McAlilly 16:58
Mm hmm.
Chris McAlilly 16:59
And ultimately, that's what I'm grateful for the season is that we've been able to listen for people who are like-hearted, even if they disagree.
Eddie Rester 17:10
Yeah. And two of those episodes, I think if you're thinking, "Well, how do I do that? How can I find those like-hearted people, even if they're not like-minded people?" Two of the episodes I think were really important to me in the last few weeks were the one with Will Willimon, Bishop Will Willimon, Uncle Will. He feels like Uncle Will. And then Ashley Abercrombie, who just came out with a book called "Love Is the Resistance." And she talks pretty openly and honestly about how her heart, she had do a lot of heart work, because just in the election season and all the divisiveness, it was so easy for her as a follower of Jesus to get caught up in that, and to learn to create space for that.
Eddie Rester 17:53
And one of the pieces of the conversation with Bishop Willimon was simply, you know, if if you're in a place and there's nobody that you disagree with in the body of Christ, then maybe you need to find a places where you have followers of Jesus who don't think like you. We talked with him just about the early church, and the early church was a place where people, my goodness, when Jesus drew people together in the early church, they came from everywhere, every arena of life, and they had completely and utterly different viewpoints. But what Jesus did to people who were Roman citizens and had a lot of privilege, and the people who were former Jews who had no privilege is Jesus created a new community with these people. And sometimes I think in reflection on a lot of the episodes this year, we break down the work of Christ because we don't allow Jesus to break down the walls between us.
Chris McAlilly 18:53
The person in this season that gets this I think the most deeply and on the level of kind of artistic possibility is Makoto Fujimura. This is one that I did. I can't remember what was going on. You were out of town.
Eddie Rester 19:10
Yeah.
Chris McAlilly 19:10
But that episode was so powerful to me because Makoto has this way of thinking about his art as participating not in the culture wars, but in culture care, in creation care, culture care. It combats destructiveness and divisiveness with care and constructive thinking and bridge building. And, you know, one of the phrases that gets thrown out a little bit is kind of reweaving the social fabric and Mako's episode on art and making, for me, was something that helped me think about how I might do that in a deeper way, as well.
Chris McAlilly 19:57
Really, what we're trying to do is kind of give you an overview of the series. I mean, a good takeaway would be if you go back and, you know, review and think about what episodes you may have missed or that you might want to engage. I think another kind of thread running through the series, as I'm looking at it over overall, was CEOs, entrepreneurs, nonprofit leaders, who are doing innovative work either within existing institutions or in new and innovative social enterprises that are making a difference in the world. I'm thinking about Nate Paulk and Demetrius Short. I'm thinking about...
Eddie Rester 20:40
Cory Mize is one of those, Base Camp Coding Academy.
Chris McAlilly 20:44
Yeah, Hal Beckham on the work at Medtronics, and Michael Ugwueke, who is the CEO of LaBonheur Health, Methodist LeBonheur Healthcare System. Those episodes, there's a thread running through them of how institutions can help make their communities better, or make the world better through innovative business solutions, creative institutional change, and that was another thread that I wanted to make sure that got picked up.
Eddie Rester 21:21
Well, and for so many of those folks, their faith compels them to lead organizations, secular organizations, business organizations, in a way that's guided by their faith and their principles, the character of Christ to change the world. And so you know, Hal Beckham's conversation for me, I accidentally met him when my daughter was having pictures taken for prom last spring, and we sprang into this conversation by the azaleas on the campus of Ole Miss, just about his work.
Eddie Rester 21:55
And it so fascinated me that Medtronic, this huge international corporation, medical corporation, has interest in how do we improve, significantly improve, the lives of people who have heart disease or who have diabetes, who have hearing loss, in how do we enter into countries and create partnerships with existing organizations, existing health care organizations in those companies and begin to make real life change? They've set up because their business metrics for how do we make sure this is actually the the money that we're investing is actually making a difference in lives? And that's an approach that I think I appreciate. Let's make sure that we're not just throwing money at a problem or throwing products at a problem, but how are we creating health and wellness for people in countries and places that health and wellness is often not the first conversation, it's often survival?
Chris McAlilly 22:58
I think that maybe is a place that I'm hoping to explore more in future seasons, as we move forward, because I think that The Weight podcast, I think I came into it thinking alright, we need their weighty topics, and that we need to have these hard conversations. I think that as the season went along, I mean, these are folks that are dealing with wickedly difficult problems on the global stage. Some of them are rooted in racism, inequality, economic disparities in local places that there's not a clear playbook in how you would extend healthcare solutions to communities in the greater Memphis area, for instance, that may not have access to quality health care. That is not an easy problem to solve. It is a weighty problem. But I think talking to people in executive leadership or people in nonprofit leadership gave me a way of thinking about folks who are in the game to try to figure out creative solutions to hard problems. I'd love to talk to more of those people doing social innovation, entrepreneurial activity, either within existing organizations or starting new things, to affect change and to create hopeful futures for communities. That's something that I'm really excited to explore more.
Eddie Rester 24:28
One of the folks we talked to this year that really was an unexpected conversation, a guy named Frank Viola. He's written a lot through the years about the church and his hope for the church and significant issues within the life of the church in this moment. And so we contacted him thinking that that's what we would talk about. But instead he had just written a book about hope, about finding hope in the hardness of life, written out of a real hard season of his life, "Hang on, Let Go," and written in such a way that people can quickly immerse themselves in the conversation, how do we find hope in hard days?
Eddie Rester 25:06
And I think, as we think about a lot of the episodes that we had this year, whether it was about race or Rice and Beans Ministries in Costa Rica or work at Medtronics, or even Ashley Abercrombie's work right now. How do we help people in a hard moment find new life and new ways? And I think as you talk about social innovation, I think some of the good work that we can do going forward is beginning to shine light on here are people who are doing it, and here's how we can begin to address not just through conversation, but through the work of our hands, the words, our mouths, how can we begin to step into the dark and hard places of the world and live in a faithful way that maybe helps people see the life of faithful followers of Jesus in a very different way?
Chris McAlilly 25:57
Well, I think that's another thing that I think is important for us to continue to tease out and to find other conversation partners moving forward, which is mental health. And it's something that's not only been a topic of the podcast, but something that our local church has been thinking about as well. But we did a series on that back in May, Monica Coleman talked about a book that she wrote on bipolar faith. And there's John Swinton, who has done a really, really interesting deep dive, looking at the language that people who experienced depression, the language that they use to describe their spiritual lives. And the book, I think, is called "Finding Jesus in the Storm."
Eddie Rester 26:41
Yeah.
Chris McAlilly 26:41
That was a very impactful conversation as well. You know, I think that we've given you a pretty good overview of what we've done this year, and we're glad that you've been a part of the conversation. We want to, again, we want to thank you for being a part of what is a kind of a growing network of people who are listening to The Weight podcast, and we want to continue doing this work. We want to do it well and faithfully and so we want to give you an opportunity to be a part of this work and to be a partner with us moving forward.
Eddie Rester 27:20
We've had the last two seasons sponsorships. We had the General Board of Higher Education in Ministry was our initial sponsor, our very first season. This past year, we had a couple of quiet sponsors come alongside and help provide to make sure that the work of The Weight could continue. You know, there are just lots of little pieces that we have to do.
Chris McAlilly 27:43
Yeah, we've got a great team. I think it's important to to lift that up. Eddie and I are just these talking heads.
Eddie Rester 27:49
Yeah.
Chris McAlilly 27:49
We've got a great team. Cody Hickman is our producer. Emily Box has been a ministry resident who has been doing amazing work in the background, helping us all season long. She's been awesome. Rachel Bernheim is working to do some scheduling for us. Emilie Bramlett...
Eddie Rester 28:06
Does the hard work.
Chris McAlilly 28:08
She does the grind.
Eddie Rester 28:09
Hey, Emilie, we know you're transcribing this right now. And we're sorry about the seven-minute long questions we ask.
Chris McAlilly 28:17
That's right. And you know, Billy Rainey was also a part of the podcast this season and did good work. We've got a great team of people. And it takes a lot to make this happen. And we want you to know about that. We want you to be a part of it as well. And so we want to give you an opportunity to do that.
Eddie Rester 28:37
If you would be interested in being a sponsor for the podcast, we'd love to talk with you about that. The way to get in touch with us about that is simply info@theweightpodcast.com.
Chris McAlilly 28:48
Yeah, we're planning for season 3. And we'd love to include you in our plans for that if you're interested in it.
Eddie Rester 28:56
Let me give you that one more time, I know you can hit the little 10 Second back thing, but info@theweightpodcast.com We'd love to have that conversation with you. If you're interested in just making a gift to help us as well. It's simply go to ouumc.org/giving, one of the dropdowns there, you'll click on "Make a one time gift." One of the drop downs there will be The Weight podcast, and we'd love for you, if you feel inclined, to help support us that way.
Chris McAlilly 29:25
Yeah. So that's important to know. We don't talk about a ton. It's just in the background. We're both pastors in a local church called Oxford University United Methodist Church here in Oxford, Mississippi. And really, it's this church that powers The Weight podcast. It's part of the ministry that we do here. And we hope that this has been valuable to you, and we definitely are grateful for your participation.
Eddie Rester 29:58
I think when we come back in January, we'll have some of our favorite episodes we're going to offer to you for a few weeks before we dive into season three. So wherever you have subscribed to podcasts, just know that we're taking a break for a bit and hope you enjoy all the holidays and have an incredible experience of Christmas this year and that in the new year 2022, we will be back with you.
Chris McAlilly 30:21
What did you get me for Christmas, Eddie?
Eddie Rester 30:23
I'm going to get you a scale so that you'll know I'm not 175 pounds.
Chris McAlilly 30:29
So you're going to get me a scale that you will stand on.
Eddie Rester 30:32
I will come to your house.
Chris McAlilly 30:33
Okay.
Eddie Rester 30:33
I will come to your house after I workout at HOTWORX on Saturday mornings, I'll drive to your house. And we'll do a weigh in every Saturday morning about 8:15.
Chris McAlilly 30:41
What's your typical workout at HOTWORX?
Eddie Rester 30:43
We do the hot ISO, run the temperature up to about 125 degrees in the box, and, you know, do the sit on the wall, do some really nasty pike planks.
Chris McAlilly 30:53
It sounds terrible.
Eddie Rester 30:54
It's terrible.
Chris McAlilly 30:55
Why do you do that?
Eddie Rester 30:56
Because I'm an old man and I can't run anymore, and I don't want to weigh 175 pounds.
Chris McAlilly 31:04
Oh. It's been a good season. We're so grateful to you guys. Thank you for being with us. Thank you for taking the journey with us, and we look forward to to being back with you in 2023. Thanks for being a part of...
Eddie Rester 31:16
2022.
Chris McAlilly 31:17
23. Did I say 23? I do that all the time. Emily's over here like, "what are you talking about?"
Eddie Rester 31:23
We can't edit this stuff out. Man. What are you doing to us?
Chris McAlilly 31:26
Hey, man, it's been a tough couple years, man.
Eddie Rester 31:30
So 2022.
Chris McAlilly 31:31
2022
Eddie Rester 31:32
We'll see you then.
Chris McAlilly 31:32
We're not taking 2022 off. We're gonna be back next year.
Eddie Rester 31:35
[OUTRO] Thank you for listening to this episode of The Weight.
Chris McAlilly 31:39
If you liked what you heard today, feel free to share the podcast with other people that are in your network. Leave us a review. That's always really helpful. Subscribe, and you can follow us on our social media channels.
Eddie Rester 31:51
If you have any suggestions or guests you'd like us to interview or anything you'd like to share with us, you can send us an email at info@theweightpodcast.com. [END OUTRO]