“Healing Ministry” with Scott Morris

Show Notes:

Dr. Scott Morris is a medical school graduate and an ordained United Methodist minister who believes that healing the sick is a vital part of the Christian faith, and he lives that belief out in a very real way in Memphis, Tennessee through Church Health. Church Health is a faith-based, not-for-profit healthcare organization that offers whole person, comprehensive health care to people facing social and economic difficulties. No one should go without critical healthcare because they can’t afford it, and Scott has worked since 1985 to solve this injustice.

Dr. Morris earned his Master of Divinity degree from Yale University and his Doctor of Medicine from Emory University. He is a board-certified family practice physician and an ordained United Methodist Minister. He is also the author of Care: How People of Faith Can Respond to Our Broken Health System.

Resources:

Learn more about Church Health, how to support it, or how to start a similar organization in your community

Follow Church Health on Facebook or Instagram

Order Dr. Morris’s book, Care

Transcription:

Eddie Rester 00:00 I'm Eddie Rester.

Chris McAlilly 00:01
I'm Chris McAlilly. Welcome to The Weight.

Eddie Rester 00:03

Today our guest is Dr. Scott Morris. Scott is the CEO and the founder of Church Health Memphis. He was raised in Atlanta, Georgia. He had a vision to go to seminary to become a pastor, but he didn't want to live out his life as a pastor in the local church, so we went to med school at Yale and moved to Memphis and founded an incredible work of healing.

Chris McAlilly 00:27

Church Health in Memphis is doing amazing work. And it's under the radar if you may or may not know about it, but it's a massive movement of healing, where healing and health is extended over 80,000 people in the Mid South region and in Memphis, and it's a story that I think it awakens or reignites my imagination to what's possible. There's so many stories that you hear in the news and on social media and in the church of decline and division and fragmentation and all of this stuff that really gets you down. Eddie, it gets me down sometimes. But this story picked me back up.

Eddie Rester 01:11

Well, it's exciting because you get to see how God has worked over the course of decades. And it hasn't just been about one person, but how God has kind of drawn all sorts of people into this story. He has a thousand doctors that are part of his volunteer network across the metro Memphis area. And one of the things I loved that we didn't really spend a lot of time talking about, but he's focused--he talks about a little bit--he's focused on the working poor, That's the segment that his work really goes to. So if you know people or if you are a person who works at a job that pays okay, but doesn't have insurance, that's who he's focused on. The folks that are doing, that are cleaning, that are taking care of us in restaurants and other places. He wants to make sure that they are taken care of with dignity and respect, with the best health care that can be mustered.

Chris McAlilly 02:16

We'll talk a lot about not just physical health, but spiritual health and some of the social determinants of health that are markers broadly, but they've been honed by Church Health and provided for their community. I love this conversation, Eddie. I really appreciate making this possible. And I want to go to Memphis and see this for myself. And maybe you'll be inspired as well. I hope so. I hope this continues to fire your imagination for how resurrection hope can lead you to some really awesome work in your area and sphere of influence, and live out your faith in the world. We're grateful that you're with us in the conversation on The Weight, and we hope that you enjoy the episode. [INTRO] The truth is the world is growing more angry, more bitter, and more cynical. People don't trust one another. And we feel disconnected.

Eddie Rester 03:20

The way forward is not more tribalism. It's more curiosity that challenges what we believe how we live, and how we treat one another. It's more conversation that inspires wisdom, healing, and hope.

Chris McAlilly 03:32

So we launched The Weight podcast as a space to cultivate sacred conversations with a wide range of voices at the intersection of culture and theology, art and technology, science and mental health. And we want you to be a part of it.

Eddie Rester 03:47

Join us each week for the next conversation on The Weight. [END INTRO] Today we're here with Dr. Scott Morris, from Memphis, Tennessee, from Church Health Memphis. Scott. Welcome to the podcast today.

Scott Morris 04:02
I'm glad to be here. Thank you guys for having me.

Eddie Rester 04:05

Yeah, I got to know you a little bit over the fall, the summer and fall I think, and the work that Church Health Memphis does. But I want to start with you. You are not just a doctor, but you're also an ordained United Methodist minister. So how did that happen? How did you end up both of those things?

Scott Morris 04:28

Well, to start with, I think of myself as a pastor who acquired a particular skill. But how I got there is I grew up in Atlanta. Growing up, I was always interested in the church. But the thought of preaching 52 sermons a year sent shivers down my spine. Still does. I have no idea how anybody can do that. But as a teenager, I read the Bible and came to realize that a third of the Bible has to do with healing the sick. It's literally on every page. But I would look around to see what churches did, and there just wasn't much to it. We prayed for people, pastors visited people in the hospital. You know, that seemed to define our healing ministry. All over the country, we had built large hospitals that have church names on them. They do good work. But they have almost nothing to do with worshiping congregations. It seemed to me that there ought to be more to it than that. So I set out to find a way in my own life, how I could connect both medicine and ministry and to figure out what that might look like and try to find a way to take the gospel seriously.

Chris McAlilly 05:33

Yeah, I think that's a really cool way to say it, that you had hoped to take the gospel seriously. And I think, sometimes, you know, we read the stories in scripture, and we spiritualize them, or we think of them as something that connect us to the eternal world or the afterlife. And then, I think there are are folks who are looking to the Bible for a map or a way of thinking about how to live an abundant and a full life here, not only for yourself, but for others. I guess, where did you in church? Where did you come across... Did you have models growing up of people who you really respected and admired, who connected faith and life from an early age?

Scott Morris 06:22

Yeah, my mother did. I think I know that only in retrospect; I'm not sure I recognized it at the time. But I had great respect for a youth minister in my life. I mean, I think a lot of people who go on to be clergy may have had a person like that. I mean, this was, I grew up in the 1960s, so the civil rights movement was going on, the Vietnam war was going on. So there was a lot of opportunity to look around. But it didn't actually have much to do with the link between faith and health. That, in many ways, just came from my own just reading up the gospel. And then as I went to seminary came to realize there's a reason these hospitals have church names on them. But we just forgot what it was.

Chris McAlilly 07:13
I think that churches, you know, there was a moment where church really came to be associated with social entrepreneurship and innovation that really made an impact and moved the needle in people's lives. At a certain point, that kind of fell away. It's really interesting to see you do that again, in Memphis. When did you land in Memphis?

Scott Morris 07:37

I came to Memphis in 1986. I did not know a soul here. I literally read that Memphis was the poorest major city in America, and based on that I said, "I'm going to move to Memphis." I came here, totally selling out of an empty cart. I was 33 years old. I was too young, too dumb to realize that what I wanted to do had no chance to succeed.

Eddie Rester 08:02

That's typically the best way to do it. If you really look at all the risks and all the problems in a project, nobody would ever get much accomplished at all. You know, when you talk about the church in the hospitals, I think a lot of people don't know the story that hospitals weren't a secular invention. They weren't something that some local government looked around and said, you know, "We ought to make hospitals." It was actually the church who did that. In the early days, they would add rooms on, hospitality rooms, on to their buildings, because they wanted people who were traveling to have a place to rest, who might not have a place to rest. And often if people fell sick while they were traveling, there was no one to care. There's no place for them to go, no one to care for them. And the church really stepped in to make sure they had a place to heal. And when I think about your work and what you've developed over the last 30, almost 40 years now, you've really stepped into that role of more than just providing health care, but it's really about hospitality and welcome and a lot more than just providing stitches or heart medicine. Say a little bit about kind of the philosophy that y'all have grown to embrace over the decades at Church Health Memphis.

Scott Morris 09:21

So being healthy is not about the absence of disease, that the World Health Organization would agree with that. Who cares if you live two years longer, if it means two years longer in a nursing home? Life for life's sake can't possibly be the point. Breathing in, breathing out, none of us are signing up for that. So what we've come to believe health is about is ultimately three things: having more joy in your life, having more love in your life, and being driven closer to God. If those things aren't happening, then what is the point? But if that's what it takes to be healthy, more joy, more love, and driven closer to God, it actually doesn't have a lot to do with the doctor, which led us to create something we call the Model for Healthy Living. Now, if you're familiar with what's called the social determinants of health, this is just a riff off of that. But we will argue that there are seven things in life that are equally important to life, that have to be in balance if you're gonna be healthy. So one of them is medical care, but only one. You know, our country is currently spending a trillion dollars a year on the doctor, the hospital, and drugs, but it only has 10% to do with your health outcomes. Now, the truth is, we're not spending the money very wisely. But medical care is one. The next is nutrition. Your mother told you, you are what you eat. She was right. Movement, our bodies are made to move. Emotions, family and friends, work. We define work as those things that bring meaning to your life. And lastly, your faith life. Your faith life is actually as important as anything the doctor might do if you're going to be healthy. So each of these seven things are equally important, must be in balance. And our work tries to find a way to engage all of our patients and ourselves on how do you live that out.

Chris McAlilly 11:14
Talk about the scope of the work that you're doing currently. What's the extent of what it looks like for folks who may not be familiar?

Scott Morris 11:22

Yeah, so we're in Memphis, Tennessee. We were critical and renovated a building that was once a Sears distribution center. That square footage is larger than the Empire State Building. We care for 80,000 people. We take care of the people who work to make our lives comfortable. They cook our food, take care of our children, wash our dishes, cut our grass. When they dig our grades, they don't complain. Yet, when they get sick, their options are very few. So we're the largest faith-based privately funded health center in America. A lot of disclaimers there. But we have a medical clinic. We have twenty physicians on our staff, we have a thousand doctors who volunteer with us. There's not a problem somebody could have from the cradle to grave we can't take care of. We have a dental clinic. We have an eye clinic. We offer counseling, we have a nutrition center, sort of full scope around the model for healthy living that I just described.

Chris McAlilly 12:22

What about our healthcare system, that, you know, I think a lot of people who interface with the healthcare system in various ways, have described it as either broken or dysfunctional or in need of innovation. You're operating in this kind of entrepreneurial space. I'm sure you're an observer and a participant in the healthcare system in various ways. What have you learned, being in this kind of private, faith-based entrepreneurial space that informs your view of of how we care for people in America?

Scott Morris 13:02

Well, our healthcare system is totally broken on a number of levels. You know, how its funded is one issue. We are not a federally funded anything. We're a true charity. We have to raise about $27 million a year. The value of what we do is about $200 million a year. But it goes so much more deeper than that. To start with, you know, we have developed in medicine, an unholy love affair with technology. What I mean by that is we've come to believe I can live my life any way I want to, and it doesn't matter, because when I'm broken, we believe that doctor could use that technology to fix me. But the reality is, the technology is actually not that good and doctors not that smart. God gave us this body for a reason, and we have an obligation to take care of it. But the church has abdicated its responsibility to do that very thing. We have fully bought in to the philosophy, I would argue theology, of Descartes and Plato, where they convinced us you could take a human being and separate us into a body and a spirit. We put the body on one side and say it's the purview of science and medicine. We put the spirit on the other end say it's okay for the church to mess around with your spirit, but heaven forbid it actually care about our bodies. An example of that, is that the least healthy meal you can eat every week is that a church. Our churches have blessed the sin of gluttony for the sake of fellowship. In the midst of the obesity epidemic in America, clergy are actually 20% heavier than the rest of the population. You can't have a healthy church if you don't have healthy leaders, and we do not have healthy leaders.

Eddie Rester 15:03
I'm at General Conference right now, while we're recording this with a whole lot of preachers, and, um...

Chris McAlilly 15:10
Do you want to say a comment about the state of the health of the preachers with you?

Eddie Rester 15:14 The general state?

Chris McAlilly 15:15
Yeah. Would you like to comment on their bodily and physical and spiritual health?

Eddie Rester 15:19

I think I'll leave that, other than to say, there are a lot of things about your model about faith and movement and friends and family, that when you look at the model that y'all have embraced, Scott, it really speaks to what we should all be looking at, talking about. And I think about the Surgeon General's talks about the epidemic of loneliness. He says, the physical impact of loneliness is identical to smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And yet, if we understood that body and spirit aren't separate, that they're together, then we'd understand that family and friends are just as important to our health as anything else. But tell us a story from maybe thinking back to the early days, when you got Church Health kind of up and going a note took a minute to find funding, to get open. I think y'all were on Peabody at first, if I remember the story correctly. What's an early story that you knew, "I think we're on the right path. I think we're doing something that God is calling us to do."

Scott Morris 16:25

We were always on the right path. And I know that because you know, the call to discipleship, you want to follow Jesus, you're expected to do three things: to preach, to teach, and to heal. A third of the gospel has to do with healing the sick. It is literally on every page. And if you are not engaged in a healing ministry, then you're ignoring a third of the gospel. I mean, do any of us really want to have to look God in the face, and at the end of time, have God say to you, "did you think I was kidding about being involved in a healing ministry?" But for reasons that I truly can't understand, other than blaming Descartes, we don't take it seriously. So I have always known that we were on the right path, because it states it clearly, by just reading the New Testament.

Chris McAlilly 17:24

One of the things I wonder about is your ability to raise money and tell the story in a way that draws people. So one is there's an obligation and an imperative in the Gospel to participate in healing ministries, and it's an active part of discipleship, and there's an expectation and a responsibility there. But also, I just wonder, for someone who may be young, who may want to change the world, who has aspirations to do that as a college student, or a young person in their 20s, or 30s, who really sees clearly what needs to happen, but has some hesitation about their capacity to actually make it happen. I wonder what advice or wisdom you would offer?

Scott Morris 18:10

Well, one thing I wish I knew now... What I wish I knew when I was 30 years old but I do know now, especially about raising money. What I am certain of is that people my age, I just turned 70, are incredibly eager to want to help a person who's 30 years old, who has a vision that could live into what we believe the gospel tells us to do. Now, in order to do that, though, you have to have an idea that is doable. It can't just be pie in the sky. You have to be able to articulate it in a succinct way. And then you just have to have the courage to go ask for what you need. And those resources are there, as long as you're doing something that is compatible with what I believe we are called to do.

Chris McAlilly 19:14
I had somebody told me the story. I read the story recently of a woman named Rose Hawthorne. Are you familiar with Rose's story, Scott?

Scott Morris 19:24 No, I'm not.

Chris McAlilly 19:25

So Nathaniel Hawthorne that wrote "The Scarlet Letter" had a daughter named Rose. Rose grew up very privileged in New York, the daughter of a famous author. He was a diplomat in Liverpool. And so she traveled around Europe as well. And then her father died and her mother died. And then she got married and lost a son. So she had all of this tragedy over the course of about 15 years. And she ended up at the time being in New York at a time where cancer was kind of like AIDS. It was, you know, if you had cancer, you're marginalized and you were kind of isolated and people thought they couldn't come near you. Anyway, she took cancer patients into her home. And one of the things that the storyteller that I heard this from was saying is that when God is doing something, when it's a movement of God, other people come and join the action. And so, I don't know, I guess there's this sense that you moved to Memphis, you begin this thing, and it quickly becomes way more than just about you and your vision. Who were some of the people that came around and kind of supported this work, this kind of new work of God that you were a part of there in Memphis?

Scott Morris 20:38

Well, I think you're exactly right, in terms of people are drawn to something that is powerful and transformative. You know, in the early days, you know, I come to Memphis not knowing a soul. And I'm going to start something called the Church Health Center. We have since dropped the word "center." It's going to have a cross in its logo. It's going to be led by a Methodist minister. So to start something like that, I went to the most obvious place for funding on the front end. The first dollars ever given to us came from a Jewish family foundation. I mean, that, to me, right there tells you that we're on the right path. How I've always known that we were to stay on the right path is truly just based on the people we take care of. Over the years, particularly early on, 1988, a significant number of our patients had grown up picking cotton in the Delta. They truly had nothing. And I still have patients the same way, who, from the ways of the world, they have nothing in terms of money. But when I walk in, and I ask them how they're doing, the answer I invariably get is that "I am fine and blessed." Really, how do you get to be fine and blessed, when you have nothing? So what they have is they have an abundance of spiritual capital. And I have the privilege of knowing them. And when I see them, the first half of my visit is to make sure that medically, I'm not messing up. And then the second half of the visit is to ask the question, how do I get to be fine and blessed? What do you know about life that I need to know?

Chris McAlilly 22:25

I love that so much because I think it... I've learned from folks who work in context where they're doing forms of mercy or justice, that one of the most important questions that gets asked is not just what can I offer to you, but what is it a value that you can offer back to me. And so I think the best practitioners of medicine, the best practitioners of a range of different disciplines, it seems to me, are ones that really make you feel as valuable as you can possibly be when you're in their presence. What are some of the other questions that you've learned to ask that bring that sense of dignity and value out of a person that you're interfacing with when you're offering patient care?

Scott Morris 23:15

Well, you mentioned the AIDS epidemic, and not to keep going back to our early days, but when we first started, it was at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, when a diagnosis of AIDS was a certain kiss of death. But I remember the very first person I actually personally diagnosed with AIDS was a man who was 42 years old. He actually worked as a yard man for a volunteer doctor of ours. But he had all the symptoms of AIDS. I do the test. It comes back positive. And I have to tell him, "You have AIDS," which means he is almost certainly going to die. We didn't have any treatment. He took it unbelievably well. And then over the next couple of years, he would come to see me when he had pneumonia, I would treat whatever his problem was. And in my opinion, there was something wrong and that he was always too happy. But at one day I actually sat him down, I looked him in the eye, and I asked him, "Do you understand your problem?" And he looked me back and told me, "I understand my problem. And I know that God loves me." That has transformed my understanding of how God's love works. I was supposed to be the person with power and the person of authority here but you have to realize that we are in this together and that God's love is far broader than my understanding.

Eddie Rester 24:55

And what it says about our understanding of health and wellness is that we assume that all of health and wellness is wrapped up in how our body is responding to whatever and that we forget that there is more to the equation. I've been sitting here thinking about the Greek word that we often just translate as "saved." It's "sozo." But the Greek word actually means "wellness, wholeness, and healing." So it says that a person in the New Testament was saved, or when Jesus talks about being saved, the real word there is wellness and wholeness that Jesus talks to us about over and over again in the New Testament. And I think what you have discovered, what you stumbled into there, is that people desire that, that wholeness and that wellness. I know that part of your story is that other communities have come to you and have come to Church Health to figure out how this works in their town. How is this replicable? How, if somebody's out there thinking, "Gosh, my town could do this," or "We should do this?" What would you say to them? Or how could they get started?

Scott Morris 26:16

Yeah, so we would love to get to know you. We have a replication seminar, that's what we call it, that we do two or three times a year. You can learn about it by going to our website, which is churchhealth.org. There are 90 clinics out there that are up and going that got started by coming to our replication seminar. I have a book that came out a year or so ago called "Care: How People of Faith Can Respond to Our Broken Health System." And it talks about a number of these clinics. So you know, if you have a desire to that, by all means, go to our website, come to our replication seminar, where you'll meet other people from around the country trying to do this work. You don't have to start at where Church Health is 37 years down the road. But you have to do something if you're going to take the gospel seriously. And we will help you figure out how to get there.

Eddie Rester 27:18

And you've really invited doctors from all over Memphis into this work. I mean, that's one of the amazing things about the story is that you've hired doctors and nurses and dentists. But then you have this entire amazing web of specialists and other doctors across Memphis, who work with you as well. How do you convince a busy doctor to say, "Give us some of your time. Tithe your time to us."

Scott Morris 27:44

Every doctor out there acquired their medical education because poor people gave them their body to learn off of. That is an educational debt you can never repay. But if I could just tell you one story that I think reflects how this works. So these days, what I do is see patients through our walk-in clinic. So the criteria to come to walk-in clinic is "I am sick today. I don't have health insurance." The cost is $40. It's the same no matter what your problem is. You got a cold, you got a broken bone, you're at death's doorstep. It's obviously a better deal the sicker you are, but for 40 bucks, a pretty good deal. So I see this guy who's 50 years old, who works in concrete. Pray you never have to work in concrete. He comes in complaining that his knee hurts. I X-rayed his knee. If I showed it to anybody here listening, you would look at that, you would go, "That's not right." So he needs his knee replaced. We have orthopedic surgeons willing to do that for free. We're going to take the pain away in a relatively short period of time. Along with the doctor, though, the hospital will not send him a bill. But I need more than that. I need anesthesia, radiology, pathology, a couple other ologies. I'm still missing something. Smith & Nephew is going to donate the piece of metal we're going to put in his knee otherwise he gets a bill for $10,000. So I tell him we're ready to go, and we will take away your pain and then he asked me, "Will I have to miss work?" Yes, you're gonna have to miss work. To which he replies, "I don't know. For now, the duct tape works just fine. This is America. You should not have to duct tape to your knee to go to work. So what we're able to do is he sees our physical therapist to get him through that work season. We replace his knee in January when you don't do a lot of concrete work. He comes back. I get him in physical therapy to get him ready to go to work in the next spring. Now many people refer to what I just describe to you as Church Health magic. Only, it's not magic. What it is, is what's possible when people are willing to come together to do the right thing.

Chris McAlilly 30:11

It's a powerful story. I do think that, you know, it reminds me of a story about a friend of mine who was at St. Jude with their young daughter, and just the economics of health care in a place like St. Jude, where it seems in a very transactional, capitalistic world, where you have to pay for a service, you have to pay for a good, that when you come to interface with something like Church Health, or St. Jude, where you can't pay for yourself, yet you can pay for somebody else. That reimagining of the way in which human beings might interact with the sickest of the sick. You know, there's something about interfacing with somebody, a child, who is desperately in need of health care. It really just reframes the whole conversation around what is possible. And I do think that, to me, the healthcare that you're offering is one dimension of the power of what you're doing. I think the other is just the witness of it, just saying that it is possible to do this differently. And for that to be replicated enough times that it really does move the needle kind of across the healthcare system. And it's a powerful thing to hear you tell that story. I really appreciate hearing it.

Scott Morris 31:41

Well, it's not just a cost to the healthcare system. I mean, I wish, Eddie, this is the message that's being debated at General Conference these next two weeks. You know, this is what real ministry should be about, as opposed to the things that have created this great split within the Methodist Church. We've forgotten what it might actually look like to follow Jesus. But doing this work, I think, is what gets us there.

Eddie Rester 32:12

I wish we could fight about these things. How can we best fund a Church Health in every major city? I wish we could fight about how do we care for the poor? I wish these were the conversations that the church was passionately pursuing. I think, you know, as I think about some of those doctors who are working with you, some of the clinics who are donating their time, as well, how is it changing the conversations that you get to have with them or with other people in Memphis, who are encountering Church Health? And I also want to talk about what y'all did with the Crosstown Concourse, just a little bit as a part of that, because that's a neighborhood vision. How does it begin to change conversations that you have as people encounter the story?

Scott Morris 33:04

Well, I mean, it has changed my vision and understanding of what church is. I just don't worry too much about trying to put people in pews and then collect money to pay for the rent. I just don't see the value of that anymore. But Crosstown Concourse, where this Sears redistribution center that we redeveloped that was abandoned in 1992. You know, it was... If you ever ordered out of the Sears catalog, it came out of one of ten distribution centers here around the country. Ours supplied nine states. But then it was abandoned and gotten to be ripe with gangs, right, anything else in the building. What more was there to say? But it was a group of young artists who came to me wanting us to be their doctors, once they had turned this building into an artist colony. Trust me, that was not a financially viable idea. But I said to them, on July 8, 2011, well, what if we move in there with you? So I married one crazy idea with another crazy idea. And then for three and a half years, we've become developers and until where we are now there are 52 entities that have signed long term leases. There are 265 apartments. And it's amazing what $300 million can do to an abandoned building. But what it's done is show us what's possible in God's imagination.

Chris McAlilly 34:47 Yes.

Eddie Rester 34:48 Yeah.

Chris McAlilly 34:49

Yes. I'm excited about this. Because you know, one of the things that strikes me... I'm a kid from Mississippi, I've been in Mississippi my whole life. I wanted to leave Mississippi and never come back. That was where I was when I was 18 years old. And when I've come back, and it was a girl that brought me back, you know, I fell in love. And now I'm stuck in Mississippi.

Chris McAlilly 35:09

I know, I know. And I'm very grateful for it. Because being back and being committed to a place like Mississippi, you see the ways in which, in the eyes of the world, there are a lot of places in Mississippi that are abandoned and that are forsaken. And typically, it is crazy, artistic, young people that will take the first step. They'll take the first chance, and we were talking to a young man, a couple of weeks ago, named Hunter Evans that started... He's a chef, and he's starting a restaurant. He's a James Beard award winning chef in Jackson, Mississippi. Now he's taking a step and he's imagining something that's possible in Jackson that other people can't see. And then there are other people that come behind that. And, you know, I think it's just cool. Creativity and imagination leads to healing. Healing can lead to a broader form of economic renewal, that could really transform a place. And that's an amazing story. I really appreciate your sharing.

Scott Morris 36:12

And I'll say, most of my artist friends here would probably not claim to be Christian. But I don't care. You know, I believe we are living into what Jesus calls us to do, and I don't need to set a cross out in order to see what God's wisdom is in all of this.

Eddie Rester 36:38

One of the things I love about Crosstown, the Concourse, and folks have probably driven by it, and not realized what it was. It's this stunning, reworked building. But there's a high school in there.

Scott Morris 36:52 Right.

Eddie Rester 36:52
And there's a famous Hollywood director, his name has slipped. He lives there. ,

Scott Morris 37:00

Craig Brewer. His last movie that people would know was "Coming to America." We have a music studio here that Matt Ross-Spang just won two Grammys, and it was all done here in our building. And yeah, it's just remarkable to see how this happens every day. We think of it as a vertical urban village built around health, education, and the arts. And then I feel there's an overriding spiritual component to what we do, and we're living it out every day. It's not about are we living it out on Sunday morning? We are... I mean, I've see the gospel surround me with almost every step I take here.

Eddie Rester 37:52

When you it that way, what it says to me is that this is the abundant life that Christ called us to. When Jesus said, "I came that you might have life and have it abundantly," it's a sense of living in such a way that you get to experience the gospel, good news, in the work that you do, in the passions that you pursue, in the ways that you imagine the world can be.

Scott Morris 38:24
I think about the beloved community that Martin Luther King envisioned.

Eddie Rester 38:29 Yeah.

Scott Morris 38:30
These things are... They go hand in glove.

Chris McAlilly 38:33
Connect those dots for folks maybe a little bit more tightly. Because, you know, you said you grew up in... You said, you grew up in Atlanta.

Scott Morris 38:42 Right.

Chris McAlilly 38:43

In the 60s. So, you know, I guess as you were growing up and you hear the stories of the civil rights movement, Martin Luther King, Jr. Of course, he comes to Memphis and his life ends there. How is that story... How do you connect to that story? And how is that story connected to some of the work that you try to do?

Scott Morris 39:07
Well, I'm sitting right now two miles from the Lorraine Motel where King was assassinated. But a few years ago, I had the privilege of interviewing Andrew Young, the first time he had come back to Memphis since he had stood on that balcony, the day King was killed. And I asked him, "So what were y'all thinking as to why you were here in Memphis?" Expecting him to tell me how they were here trying to change the world. And what he said to me is that, "We weren't doing that. We were literally here as just young pastors trying to be what God had called us to be, as pastors." You know, I don't think that's what most people think of King as doing But I also think it means .

Chris McAlilly 39:15

I wonder if you're, I assume at this point in your career, you're also thinking about legacy. And you're thinking about succession planning, and just kind of what this looks like moving forward. I know that you have some of the folks that listen to the podcast are maybe at a point in their career where they're thinking through similar questions. What are the ways in which you're thinking about some of those matters? What's important to you now, as you think about making sure to set up this great work for a life beyond your leadership?

Scott Morris 40:46

Well, so, that's extremely important. People started asking me about my succession plan when I was 40 years old. It didn't make a lot of sense then. It makes all the sense in the world now. Look, we've got a fully thought out, moving-forward plan. We have incredibly strong leadership, that it doesn't depend on me. You know, we're good with that succession planning. But you absolutely have to think about that, and particularly, sort of a founder-led organization... You know, a founder can screw it up really bad, if that founder doesn't know how to hand things off as things go on. I hope five years from now, people will look at Church Health and say I did a good job. You know, I'm fully committed to that. And in the next few years, we'll see how I did.

Chris McAlilly 41:47

I do think, I wonder... You know, for someone... I'm 41 years old. For a leader that's in the middle of their career, and, you know I can imagine that the years just keep clipping off. So I assume they're going to continue to do that. What advice would you give for somebody like me that's in a leadership role? What are some of the things that you would offer, just wisdom or guidance, as you think about this section or portion of your career?

Scott Morris 42:17

Yeah, I love that. I mean, you have to know what your strengths are, and you have to really know what your weaknesses are. And, particularly when you're in a position... If you're in a position of leadership, then you need to be hiring to your weaknesses. And you have to be confident that who you are, is not going to be belittled by having people come to make the organization stronger. And then it is a team game. It's never just about you. But you also have to be keenly aware of the idea of the shadow of the leader. People are watching you at every turn you make. And so, you know, that's part of why it can be lonely at the top, but you've got to be aware on a daily basis that people are paying attention to what I do, and how I literally approach the person cleaning up is going to impact the culture of the organization. You know, culture is not something you just go create. It takes a long time to have a strong culture, but you better invest in it today and tomorrow and the day after that, because it is very hard to build up. It is really easy to tear down.

Eddie Rester 43:46

If there's somebody listening today, and they're thinking, "Gosh, I'd like to do something." They're inspired. Every time I talk to you, I'm inspired by you, Scott. What encouragement would you give them or what advice would you give them about getting started in something? If they're saying I want to do something. I want to be involved in healing, being a part of the healing work of Jesus. What would you say?

Scott Morris 44:11

Well, if you're interested in a healing ministry, then come to Memphis, especially if you're young. I mean, if you're really young, we offer a gap year program for kids finished college, want to go to medical school. You work for us for a year. If you're in college or something, we have summer internships. You know, but whatever you're in, I think finding a mentor in your life who you can be honest, put your thoughts in front of and you can't be so easily hurt if your ideas get shot down. But you do have to develop the ability to articulate what you want to do. If you can't say it in a meaningful way, it will never happen. And you have to have a vision for what it's going to look like. I mean, people have asked me ten thousand times, did I ever think Church Health would grow to be what it is right now? And the answer is: yes, I did. But partly because I believe that the gospel called us to do it, and we're not doing anything that's different. But literally everything we are right now was embedded in where we began in 1987. We've just lived into it.

Chris McAlilly 45:37
Yeah, that's great. That's awesome. Eddie, you have any closing thoughts here? Any reflections that you want to you want to offer?

Eddie Rester 45:44

If somebody wants to support Church Health, let me give you this opportunity. I'm gonna give you your moment to sell. It's $27 million a year that's raised by you and your staff. If someone says, "I'd love to help," what do they need to do? How can they help?

Scott Morris 46:00

Look, our website is churchhealth.org. We would love people who would give a monthly gift, it can be $10 a month. You can make a difference. Our people that we care for truly are the people who make our lives comfortable. And so, churchhealth.org, Give Now. It's a very easy way to make a one-time gift or recurring gift. Part of what we do do a replication seminar is help others figure out how do you raise money. People in churches are terrible about even talking about money. But you've got to be able to realize that our financial resources are a reflection of those things that we value.

Eddie Rester 46:50 Right.

Scott Morris 46:50
And you can't run away from that. That is critical. But you have to be able to have a vision.

Eddie Rester 46:59

The book is "Care," by Scott Morris. You can get it on amazon.com. It's a great read full of some of the stories that he told today, but more with some of the partners that he's worked with, people that he's worked with through the years. Scott, I just appreciate you and your willingness to spend some time with us. But more than that, I appreciate your witness to the healing work of the church and the healing work of Jesus in the world. Thank you for that.

Scott Morris 47:25
I appreciate y'all giving me this opportunity to get to know you guys better.

Eddie Rester 47:31
[OUTRO] Thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, the best way to help us is to like, subscribe, or leave a review.

Chris McAlilly 47:38

If you would like to support this work financially or if you have an idea for a future guest you can go to theweightpodcast.com. [END OUTRO]