Creation Care - “Earth’s Custodians” with Heather Toney
Shownotes:
God’s creation is a direct reflection of God’s glory, and Christians are called to be faithful stewards of the earth. While global issues of climate and environment can seem out of reach, our local communities give us space to learn and take action in small and large ways. How can we partner with our creator to build a better, more sustainable living environment? What simple, practical changes can we make to responsibly care for our local communities and our world?
Chris and Eddie are joined by Heather McTeer Toney, an activist, speaker, and author who serves as the National Field Director for Moms Clean Air Force. Toney is the former two term mayor of Greenville, Mississippi, and she was appointed by President Obama as the Regional Administrator for the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) Southeast Region. During her tenure as mayor, Toney observed the many connections between infrastructure, inequality, and the environment. She has enthusiastically championed her communities to ensure equitable access and a sustainable future for all. Toney speaks to the collaborative nature of creation care, the relationship between her upbringing and her heart for justice, her experiences with environmental challenges in the Mississippi Delta, and the responsibility that God has given each of us to this earth.
Series Info:
God’s creation is a direct reflection of God’s glory, and Christians are called to be faithful stewards of the earth. While global issues of climate and environment can seem out of reach, our local communities give us space to learn and take action in small and large ways. How can we partner with our creator to build a better, more sustainable living environment? What simple, practical changes can we make to responsibly care for our local communities and our world?
In this series, we will discuss the relationship between humanity and creation with leaders in agriculture, government, and the church. These guests equip us with the knowledge we need to honor God through creation care. Join us as we seek to make environmental issues less intimidating and more inviting, rooted in love for God’s very good creation and honor for the image of God woven throughout it all.
Resources:
Follow Heather Toney on the web:
https://www.heathermcteertoney.com
Learn more about Moms Clean Air Force here:
https://www.momscleanairforce.org
Learn more about Environmental Defense Fund here:
Follow Heather Toney on social media:
Full Transcript:
Chris McAlilly 0:00
I'm Chris McAlilly.
Eddie Rester 0:01
I'm Eddie Rester. Welcome to The Weight.
Chris McAlilly 0:03
Today we're talking to Heather McTeer Toney.
Eddie Rester 0:07
And she is just an amazing woman. The things that she is accomplished, been a part of. Today you're going to hear her talk a lot about creation care and the environment. She is a native Mississippian. She lives here in Oxford. But she was a mayor, 27 years old of Greenville, Mississippi. She's worked with the EPA. She's part of the Environmental Defense Fund, a mom's Clean Air Force. She is heavily involved in environmental issues, environmental policy, but also how we live this locally.
Chris McAlilly 0:43
What was your takeaway from the conversation? What did you really get impacted by?
Eddie Rester 0:49
Yeah, I think for me, it was that she has this image she's gonna share about stewardship that really is about a school building, and you're going to hear it and it really helped me think a little bit more clearly about responsibility and role. I don't want to give it all away. What about you?
Chris McAlilly 1:08
There's an energy about her. And just a, I don't know, just a hopefulness about how local communities and individuals, businesses, nonprofits, faith-based organizations can be a part of really interesting solutions, not just about the environment, or climate, but really what makes for a healthy community across the board economically, a community that does have equity in the way that it is structured and built, so that everybody has clean air, clean water, and the kind of infrastructure they need to live a good life. It really is a conversation about the common good. And the environment is a part of that, because we all share the same air and we're a part of this shared space.
Eddie Rester 2:02
She really, I think, helps broaden the conversation. Sometimes people hear "climate change" or "environmental issues," and they pull back. But she really talks about duck hunters and fishing and you know, the things that we do locally as ways to have the conversation.
Chris McAlilly 2:20
I also think that I have not grappled enough with just the economic impact of electric vehicles and how that's going to change our communities and a whole range of sectors that are going to be affected by the environment and conversations around the way in which we need to build resiliency into our systems and into our infrastructure and into our business plans.
Eddie Rester 2:50
Well, give this one a listen. Share with your friends. Share it on the Tweeters and the Facebooks and all those.
Chris McAlilly 2:57
"The tweeters?" Do people say that, Eddie? Do people say Tweeters?
Eddie Rester 3:01
I say it. Does that... I'm trying to make it a thing. Am I gonna make it a thing?
Chris McAlilly 3:04
I don't think so, man. I don't know. You might. You keep it going. We'll see.
Eddie Rester 3:09
We'll see.
Chris McAlilly 3:09
It's a good episode. Thanks for being with us.
Chris McAlilly 3:13
[INTRO]We started this podcast out of frustration with the tone of American Christianity.
Eddie Rester 3:19
There are some topics too heavy for sermons and sound bites.
Chris McAlilly 3:22
We wanted to create a space with a bit more recognition of the difficulty, nuance, and complexity of cultural issues.
Eddie Rester 3:29
If you've given up on the church, we want to give you a place to encounter a fresh perspective on the wisdom of the Christian tradition in our conversations about politics, race, sexuality, art, and mental health.
Chris McAlilly 3:42
If you're a Christian seeking a better way to talk about the important issues of the day, with more humility, charity, and intellectual honesty, that grapples with Scripture and the church's tradition in a way that doesn't dismiss people out of hand, you're in the right place.
Eddie Rester 3:57
Welcome to The Weight. [END INTRO]
Eddie Rester 4:00
I'm excited today. Our guest Heather McTeer Toney is with us. Heather, thank you for for joining us today.
Heather Toney 4:07
Thanks so much for having me.
Chris McAlilly 4:09
I'm pumped about this. There was a Sunday a few weeks back, I didn't tell you about this Eddie, when I got a text message after the service on Sunday afternoon. And somebody texted me and said, Did you know Heather Tone"y was at church on Sunday?" It was awesome. I was like, yes, I did. I knew that she was there. They said she's a big deal.
Eddie Rester 4:29
Well, and I think people don't realize all the ways that you are involved and invested in the conversation about climate change and creation care. So to help us know you a little bit, help our listeners know you better, share just a little bit of your story growing up in Mississippi, mayor of a town here in Mississippi, just kind of give us some of the high points of your story.
Heather Toney 4:55
Sure. Well, first, let me say I do appreciate being part of the Oxford University Methodist family. My family and I, we are members. You may see us every now and then. But it's been wonderful to be in a place where we feel comfortable, we feel loved and respected and are taught sound Biblical principle. It is so important to our lives. And I'm greatly appreciative of it. And it's actually a part of my story, because I grew up in the Mississippi Delta. And if you would have told me, at any point in my life, that I would have left the Mississippi Delta, particularly for Oxford, I would have fought you. That's just because being a native of a place that I so love and is just filled with all of the best and worst of our communities is very special.
Heather Toney 5:55
I am the daughter of Mr. And Mrs. Charles Victor McTeer, Charles and Mercedes McTeer. My mom and dad are retired. My dad's a retired civil rights attorney and my mom's a retired schoolteacher. So I grew up in a household of social justice. At the same time, I grew up in a space where we understood very clearly that we had a responsibility as a faith-based family, to really be stewards of our community and to understand that justice and equity have to be a part of every aspect of our lives. So you know, my mom and dad came to Mississippi as a part of the Voters' Rights movement, and they were supposed to be here for two years. And you know, 40 years later...
Eddie Rester 6:51
Here you are.
Heather Toney 6:52
Not only... right! They not only raised a family but have truly contributed to the community. I ran for mayor in 2004, 2003, and was elected and took office in 2004, as the first African American and the first female, and at the time, the youngest--I was only 27--Mayor of Greenville, Mississippi, and thereby a major Mississippi community. And it was a fascinating time, but certainly a terrifying time as well. And so, you know, even when I think now to the work that I do, and the trajectory of my work, from being a mayor to eventually being appointed as the Regional Administrator for the United States Environmental Protection Agency, USEPA, in the southeast under President Obama, and even now to the work that I do with the Environmental Defense Fund, and climate and speaking and talking all over the world, it is amazing that all of this was produced out of the Mississippi Delta. All of this came from the love and education and faith, from folks who taught me in Sunday School, were my teachers, my band directors, the little old lady down the street to sell cookies. All of this came out of a space that a lot of people disregard. And to me, that's very special.
Chris McAlilly 8:21
I think that topics like the environment or climate can be so big and abstract and global, that you articulate your concerns for the environment in a way that I feel like originates from that local, a place of local concern, the concreteness of a local community. I wonder how you got started in thinking about the environment as something that was a concern in the way that you thought about politics and the common good.
Heather Toney 8:55
It's funny, I never saw myself as an environmentalist. Never, ever, I thought that environmentalists and climate people were, quite frankly, white people hugging trees in their Birkenstocks, because that's what I saw. I didn't see myself in that space. And it wasn't until Lisa Jackson, who was the Administrator of the EPA, actually made a visit to Greenville, because I was working on water infrastructure and I was working on street repairs and things to help improve the community that I thought from an economic perspective were job creators and ways that we could bring industry into the Mississippi Delta. And Administrator Jackson came and she said, "You know, this is environmental justice work, right?" No, surely it's not. You gotta be kidding. She said, "No, really it is."
Heather Toney 9:44
And the way that she began to help me understand and really see the intersections of environment to how streets are maintained, the very soil that we sit on and how it shifts in the Mississippi Delta and in other regions can determine whether or not a street stays for five years or 10 years and how that even the placement of people in communities is a direct reflection of the environment in which we exist. And so, you know, that began to create this whole new world for me.
Heather Toney 10:23
One, it was a world of frustration, because I realized that I had never seen this, even though I had grown up in an agrarian society, even though I grew up blocks away from Lake Ferguson and the Mississippi River. And I knew environmental issues just from being in this state. And I realized that all people who were in that space knew it. I knew when it was harvest season, and when the seasons changed from summer to fall, not because I had a horticulture degree, but you know, fall means football season. It means cotton is being harvested. It is a different sense of how we interact. And so that is the way that I began to see how much climate and environment actually impacted our everyday lives. But also how many opportunities we had to both improve it, as well as to be aware of the constant changes and shifts.
Heather Toney 11:28
I will say that understanding climate change became a reality for me when we dealt with to 500 year flood events within one term. And a 500 year event is not something that happens every 500 years. It is something that the likelihood of it happening is so vast, it's not likely to happen. We had two, and understanding that the water was rising faster, the floods were coming quicker, there was more water literally in the storms, made me realize there's something to this that we have to really understand. Because it's not just this big picture issue that's not impacting people. When you have a major flood in a community, you're spending time paying police and fire overtime to help rescue people. There are expenses that come as a result of adding damages to the infrastructure of the community, not to mention insurance and home and property loss for people who live in a community. So these were all things that I began to reckon with after Lisa explained to me that I was actually doing climate work.
Chris McAlilly 12:50
Yeah, I think if you're not familiar with the Mississippi Delta... Growing up in Mississippi, I had not heard the story of the 1927 flood. And you know, we live in Oxford and right down the road is this huge reservoir that was created by the Army Corps of Engineers, there are four major reservoirs that were created on the other side of that 1927 flood. And they were flood control reservoirs that were built by the Army Corps of Engineers to try to help with with that problem. It's fascinating that you had two 500 year floods in that short span of time.
Chris McAlilly 13:26
But I think before we push forward into the climate conversation, I want to go back to when you're a mayor, and in particular, I've heard you talk about Greenville's brown water and kind of the water infrastructure, because I do think the concreteness of a local place and community matters for the way in which we think about the environment. Could you talk a little bit about that, what you encountered there in Greenville?
Heather Toney 13:49
Yeah. So if you're from the Delta, if you're from Greenville or anywhere around that area, and I mean from in terms of being native, folks, some people believe that that water is magical, it is medicinal, that there is something special about the softness of the water, even though it is brown. And when I say brown, I mean brown as in the color of sweet tea. It is really truly groundwater. The reason the water is brown is because it's filtered through underground Cypress reserves that are historic and prehistoric, I'm sorry. And that is what gives the water its color. And it gives us its softness, but as you can well imagine, you know, nobody wants to go into a restaurant and get water out of a tap that is the color of their sweet tea.
Heather Toney 14:38
And so while there are certainly properties that people who are from the Delta really appreciate about that water in that space is not exactly the best for economic development, unless you have specific filters and that we are really making sure that we can accommodate the industries that need to make sure they have clear, clean water and clean water being a huge part of that conversation. So that was really how I began engaging in environmental and climate work and understanding what was the connection between the Mississippi River, the water that came up through our soil and was filtered, the brown water, what people liked about it and what people didn't like about it. And then even further, how did that impact or how does it even continue to impact the opportunities for economic development in the region?
Heather Toney 15:32
And understanding the ebb and flow of water quite literally, from it being clean to how it affects wastewater systems and how it can move through a community and the soil of the community to completely destroy areas or help build them up. And as you said, understanding even the levee systems, the Army Corps of Engineers, how they have worked to control that very same body of water and understand the elements of it being brown and did that have anything to do with how it is impacting our actual infrastructure in the community are all things that we had to think through and take into consideration.
Heather Toney 16:24
But, you know, I'll also tell you that the Delta is a very impoverished community. And when you're dealing and trying to figure out how do we find solutions for poverty? How do we find solutions for economic injustice? People don't always, of course, put climate and environment at the top of that list. So I had to be getting really creative around showing the connections between all of these elements, and how they can actually be assets to one another versus having to choose, are we going to talk about economic development and poverty or climate and the environment?
Eddie Rester 16:59
I think that's some of... As we think about the larger culture and the conversation around climate change, creation care, is that people do tend to pit one against the other, that you can't have both. And you've been in conversation through your work. Through the years with the EPA moms, the moms Clean Air Army--is that, did I say that correct?
Chris McAlilly 17:24
Air Force.
Heather Toney 17:25
Clean Air Force.
Eddie Rester 17:26
Clean Air Force, that's right. So you've been in conversation with people all over the place from probably a wide spectrum of understanding, belief, response. What have you learned from some of those conversations with folks talking about your concerns?
Heather Toney 17:43
One of the most important things is language and how we talk about things, because the language that we use can either be a way we start a conversation or the way we quickly end one. And climate being one of the things that has become very politicized. And people tend to make a judgment call as to another person's beliefs based upon their conversation and language. I found that it's really important for us to learn how to have and how to talk to each other and understand each other's languages.
Heather Toney 18:23
So for example, being a Southerner, and being in climate and environment, some of my friends and colleagues that are from the West who say, climate change in every sentence, have the darndest time trying to figure out how do I talk about climate change or how they can talk about climate change in the South? It's, "You don't talk about climate change." I say yes we do. We talk about it all the time, we just don't say the same word. I can talk to any hunter in the state of Mississippi, and they can tell me exactly how the seasons have changed. I can go on Facebook to people in my community and see how they will talk about finding snakes in the deer stand earlier in the year versus when they normally would or how fishing and duck seasons have shifted. Well, that's a conversation around climate and environment. And it's a space where I think people have to understand and respect the way that we talk about these issues. It may not sound like other parts of the country or even other parts of the globe, but it's because we interact with it differently. And once we begin to realize we're actually really all talking about the same thing, it makes it that much easier to come up with culturally competent solutions that help us to protect it.
Eddie Rester 19:38
I think that's a really fascinating point that we interact with it differently. And you know, I've listened here in Oxford a lot. A lot of our friends, a lot of our church members are big duck hunters. And for the last four or five years, every year, the comment has been, it's the worst duck season ever and then the next year it was even worse. And it was even worse. And the duck hunters are realizing that the migratory patterns have changed. The ducks are coming later because it gets colder later, or they've shifted west of here because of where they can eat in Texas where they couldn't eat there before during the winter. So I think finding those different ways to talk. What are some of the places that you're having those conversations?
Heather Toney 20:28
So we have the conversations, quite frankly, everywhere. Instead of climate change, and environmental issues sort of being one of the boxes that we pick, I think of it as being the table that all of the boxes sit on. So whether we are discussing economic development, or if I'm discussing housing, or if I'm discussing education, there's always a climate and environment angle to that. And one of the wonderful things about being from the South and being from Mississippi is, you know, we have this Southern gentility about us. We have this friendliness, it's what I like to refer to as home training, where we don't have a problem talking with people, even if we disagree with them. And I found that it has been hugely beneficial in how I talk about climate and environmental issues, just based upon where I'm from.
Heather Toney 21:31
When I think about the racial concerns that, especially that we've seen in this country over the past year and a half, I have said in a number of spaces, you know, interestingly enough coming from the state of Mississippi, we are not so big of a state and so urban of a state, where you have, for example, we have in Oxford, we don't have a Black Walmart and a white Walmart, we have Walmart. We don't have a Black Kroger and a white Kroger. You have Kroger. And so that creates this place where we actually have to come into contact with people who don't look like us, who don't think like us. But we are in the same space on a regular basis.
Heather Toney 22:20
That's very different in other parts of the country. And so that familiarity and just being in the same area and region with people who may or may not agree or look like me, but I still know how to say and speak and say "Hello," "good morning," "yes, ma'am, "yes, sir." Yeah, let's talk or just the basics of any Southern conversation when you meet somebody: "Hey, how are you doing?" "I'm fine. How are you?" "Good. How's your mother and them doing?" "Doing good." You might not know this person at all. But you get to tell them that conversation, right?
Eddie Rester 22:52
Yep.
Heather Toney 22:53
Well doing that with climate, and I think in a number of different places, whether or not I'm talking on a congressional hearing to talk to members of Congress about climate and equity, or if I'm talking to the mayor, or if I'm talking to the moms, I bring that same spirit and energy of home training and being from Mississippi that I think opens those doors.
Chris McAlilly 23:17
I want to talk a little bit more about culturally competent solutions, both at the local level of city government and then also at the kind of the federal level. One of the things that I've heard you say is that, and particularly that the relationship between the environment and race, that if you want your Black community to say, hey, you need to go plant some gardens, how are you going to do that when you don't own land, when you don't own property? Just help draw together some of these dimensions of environment, race, inequality, and opportunity.
Heather Toney 23:56
Yes, I think that's a huge place for us to have deeper understanding is how different races of people particularly Black and Brown and indigenous people have intersected and come in contact with environment is placed upon us by people who had a privilege that we have not had. And so you know, for example, when we talk about something as simple as camping, right, we want to go camping. We should go spend time in the outdoors, get some fresh air. That does not sit the same with someone who is maybe white from a suburban family who has had the privileges of you know, being in a home and going outside or understands or has, you know, certain opportunities versus someone who is Latino and maybe came from a migrant family, a migrant farm worker family. That family is saying, why are you going outside? We spent all of our life out there. We have worked hard to keep you from doing this. What is this idea that you have of what camping, quote unquote, "camping" is. Who made that definition?
Heather Toney 25:09
Because even when we go further to our indigenous brothers and sisters, they immediately will turn that into, wait a minute, you are talking about going and spending time and space in the great outdoors, a space that was taken from us. Let's face that, even into the 50s, National Parks where we encourage people to go, Black and Brown people could not go there. They were segregated. You could not as a Black person go to a national park in the United States of America. So these ideals of what it is and what it means to be in the environment and to experience it and as a result, come up with solutions to protect it, it's different.
Heather Toney 25:54
And it certainly has to take into account some of the systems of racism that we're really trying to overcome in our country. When I think about the housing policies of the 50s and 60s, what we know, as now racist redlining that took place in a number of cities across America. And it was basically, you know, after World War II, where there were lots of subdivisions that were being created all over this country, and young men coming back from the war could get funding to go and buy a house. But if you were Black, and you got the same amount of money, you could not buy a house in the same place that someone who was white and had served in the same war could buy.
Heather Toney 26:48
So my grandfather, who is, he's passed away, a World War II veteran, he had funding, and he had money to buy a house with my grandmother, and they raised seven children. But it was on the west side of Baltimore, Maryland. They could not go into other places, because the redlining rules of Housing and Urban Development said that Black people could not live in a particular covenant area. And those areas where Black and Brown people were required to live, or the only places they could buy property, were places that did not have free. They did not put in sidewalks. They did not put in wastewater sewer, so that the water could flow through. They were often built with what we call impervious material, where you don't have good air flow. And as a result, right now, today, when we lay maps out, heat maps, we can see very, very clearly, based the time that systemic and historic racist policy--that came from our government--you now have whole areas that are hotter and have more instances of death as a result of extreme heat. They have more instances of asthma, of heart disease, of cancer. And it comes again, as a result of the policy.
Heather Toney 28:10
So when we now need to think through what are the solutions, it becomes very difficult to go into communities and say, oh, you should plant trees. Oh, you should go in and you should put a garden in your backyard. Yes, people in Black communities say, I don't own the yard. Not only do I not own the yard, I don't even have access to the same materials that you have access to, in order to create this. So we have to think about it differently, but also think about how we are not going to repeat the same thing over and over again, and make sure that people have access.
Chris McAlilly 28:47
I do think one of the places where, to kind of bring it back to these historic floods in Mississippi, the Mississippi Delta, the Mississippi River Delta, I think one of the places where I remember coming to an awareness of the way in which American cities and the infrastructure, the built environment, had a certain kind of inequality tied into it. And that was connected to the environment, was the way in which Black and Brown neighborhoods in New Orleans were disproportionately affected by the flooding of Hurricane Katrina and otherwise. But that's the case in multiple different settings and multiple different cities that the built environment does have significant challenges to overcome, if you're thinking about all these things in tandem.
Chris McAlilly 29:35
I wonder for you, I mean, what I hear in that is an almost insurmountable set of structural impediments. And I think that that leads, I think, hopefully to your particular approach to this work, which is, you're a person of faith and I wonder how you think about how your faith shapes your approach to your political engagement? And particularly, I know that you describe yourself as a recovering politician, so I don't want to offend you. But how your approach to the work that you do, how does your faith impact that?
Heather Toney 30:18
Yeah, it is. It is the undergirding of it, you know. Nothing is impossible. Nothing is insurmountable. And all things are possible to those that believe. And that is the basis of how I look at this work, even if something as huge as climate and climate change, I'm constantly reminded that the same thing that people have concern about is the same very element that I believe God created. And so if the same God that I serve says that is it is His creation, then certainly there is nothing that he is not in control of with respect to it, but he's given me a responsibility. And that responsibility is to be a good steward, and to take care of the gifts of creation that I think we all have a responsibility to do.
Heather Toney 31:17
And it really lightens the load, in my opinion. It makes it you know, say, alright, you know, I think it was like this. So we know, okay, we all can visualize a school building. And in that school building, you have a custodian and a janitor or a janitor, you have a building principal. Well, the custodian and the building principal technically have the same set of keys. They have dominion over the same space. The custodian has keys to every single room in that building, is responsible for maintaining it, is responsible for caring for it. And the building principal has the same set of keys, but they don't have the same responsibilities.
Heather Toney 32:05
And when I think about my role in climate and my faith and how they intersect, I think that creation care in and of itself is God saying to his people, "You are the custodians. You're the janitors. I've given you the keys. You have dominion. You have the same space of dominion. You can go into all these places, but your responsibility is to take care of it. You are not the building principal. I am." And the building principal is the one that determines the budget, you know, determines the amount of toilet paper that is necessary after we've gone through it all. Well, as the janitor, I don't have the ability to go out and buy new toilet paper for the entire school. I can tell the building principal, what's necessary, but the building principal also can look at me and say, Well, you know, why didn't you manage this better? What was going on here?
Heather Toney 32:58
And that's the way that really we should be looking at how we intersect with the environment as people of faith. We've been given a job, a responsibility, to basically, as one pastor told me, be the maintenance people for the earth. And go back to the building principal to make sure that A) we're doing what we're supposed to be doing. But also to ensure that all of creation, all of this ecosystem, is being cared for in the way that the building principal told us it needed to be cared for. That gives me hope. And it gives me faith. It makes even thinking about how we come around solutions for what needs to be corrected in a way that is very, very engaged with my spirit, and with the Word of God that I read about hope and about belief and about what we can even create just through our own, the way that we talk about things. It is maybe different from how other people think of it. But it certainly helps to keep me inspired about all of the things we have yet to see that will come as a result of working on environmental issues.
Eddie Rester 34:21
That'll preach. I mean, that's a spectacular image for us, I think, as we think about our role in that because it also means that we're not responsible for... I think you said it gives you freedom, that idea of stewardship, because it means we don't have to attend to everything in the building, we have to attend to our role in the building. And I think that word steward, you said that I remember earlier in the conversation you said that your parents taught you stewardship. And one of the things about a steward is that they care for things beyond themselves. I think that's such an important and powerful image.
Eddie Rester 35:06
One of the things we haven't talked about some of your experience is working for the Environmental Protection Agency. You were appointed by President Obama in 2014. I want to dig into that a little bit. The Environment Protection Agency, I think has been around since the 1970s. What most people only hear about that through the news or through some slanted conversation about it. In your experience, what is the role of the Environmental Protection Agency?
Heather Toney 35:37
If you drink it, stand on it, or breathe it, the EPA is responsible to make sure that it's protected and it's safe.
Eddie Rester 35:48
That's it.
Heather Toney 35:52
Yeah, the mission of the EPA is to protect human health and the environment. Human health comes first in the mission statement, so I always explained it, as if you're breathing it, you're drinking it, or you're standing on it, then I'm responsible to make sure that it's safe for you to do so. And that it's safe equally across the board for all people, no matter what you look like, where you live, or how much money you make. Everybody should be able to breathe without wondering if you're taking in toxic chemicals or it's poisonous. Everyone should be able to drink water, have access to water, that you're not worried it's contaminated. And you should be able to stand on, play in, pray around, go to school on land that's not toxic to your body.
Eddie Rester 36:46
I moved here from Hattiesburg, Mississippi, and there was an industry there that existed for decades and decades and decades making cleaning supplies. And the company maintained a presence there long after production stopped simply because the ground that people stood on was contaminated. And if they closed, they would have to clean up the site. And I think part of it, sometimes what we don't realize is that the EPA wants to make sure that we all have exactly what you say--this access to clean space that's not going to damage not just me or my children but other people in my community. As we think about, you were part of I think Region 4, which is Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, six tribal nations. What are some of the specific challenges, unique challenges, that we face in our region?
Heather Toney 37:50
So Region 4, which Mississippi is a part of, is the most diverse region in the entire United States of America. It holds a quarter of the nation's population, and some of the most wonderful and beautiful biodiversity that you will see and experience in one space. And let's just add to that we've got Disney World and the SEC in Region 4.
Eddie Rester 38:13
That's a pretty, you know, significant spot. Yeah.
Heather Toney 38:15
It's pretty significant. And NASCAR. I definitely had, oh, the best region if you ask me. At the same time, it's fraught with environmental injustices. The environmental justice movement actually started in a place called Warren County, North Carolina, where in the 80s, early 80s, the state moved a landfill, a toxic landfill, right into a Black community. After the state had gotten in trouble for trying to line the sides of the highway with this toxic chemical and decided that wasn't going to work, they put it into this one county. And this county, and the people in this county, actually went out and laid down in front of the trucks that were bringing in the toxic soil as an effort to say you cannot put this in our community. And they failed. The state did it anyway. Even to this day there are places in the community in Warren County that have significant toxic soil problems. And that is an example what has happened throughout the southeast.
Heather Toney 39:32
Because there are so many places where regulations have not been enforced, civil rights litigation has not been enforced, we have seen tragic instances of toxic chemicals and soil from other parts of the country placed in Black and Brown communities throughout the southeast. So when there was that big coal ash spill that happened in the upper Tennessee Valley area, that soil got sold and put into Union County, Alabama. And people are dealing with that in that space. Facilities, there, there is a study that shows that the majority of African Americans live within a mile of an oil and gas facility, some on the very fence line of oil and gas facilities or polluting and emitting facilities.
Heather Toney 40:28
And so that example that you talked about in Hattiesburg, unfortunately, is very common, where the space around the facility has become so toxic that it cannot be used for anything else. And companies don't want to clean it up. So there's that continued problem of the toxic nature of the land. That is one area that is significant for Region 4. I think another that we are grappling with is the incidences of extreme weather that come as a result of the shifting and changing climate that we see more and more of. When we saw Hurricane Katrina come through New Orleans, and that's actually Region 6. Louisiana is our neighbor, but it's a different region. But it still had a huge impact to us. And Katrina actually hit, quite frankly, Mississippi. But when we saw that, we were all stunned. This was the biggest hurricane we'd ever seen. There were Live Aid concerts to help raise money. We could not believe the images that came across our television. Let's fast forward to 2020 where we had so many named storms, we actually went into the Greek alphabet. And it became normalized for us. Well, the place where that is impacted the most is Region 4.
Heather Toney 41:55
So it's going to be Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, coastlines, the Carolinas, the constant storms that come and bring more and more money, I'm sorry, more water into the storms, means we have to spend more money. It means that the cleanup that comes along with that often is right on the heels of another storm. And hurricane season starts for us June 1. So you know, we're talking about entering into a space where in our region and just look at how the jetstream goes, we can anticipate having a lot of water, a lot of storms, but also a lot of cleanup that we have to prepare for. So for EPA, and not just EPA, I think now it's more of a all of government approach. So for every agency, but also for private business, for nonprofit organizations, fait- based institutions, we're looking at how do we become more resilient? How do we prepare and use technology and innovation to protect these places that we love?
Heather Toney 43:02
No one wants to leave their native homes and community. So how do we protect it? How do we look at building up spaces or replacing what has been lost with things that are stronger, that are more environmentally friendly, and that assure us as we move forward into this next century, we're doing the right thing of protecting and even evolving, in terms of how we share this ecosystem and this planet? That's what excites me.
Heather Toney 43:35
It's the businesses that are coming up. It is, you know the electric vehicle EV infrastructure that is being rolled out. It is the F150, the new one that just came out that the electric vehicle that I am totally geeked about. Because that is not just a new truck. It is new technology that talks about infrastructure so that when the storm comes and we're all out of power, you can plug up to your truck and your truck powers your house. Like there's innovation out here that is mind blowing. But it's fascinating and so helpful to me, because it says the next generation, my kids that are coming up, they not only have the answers, but they will be able to build wealth. They'll be able to really catapult us into the next century. And they'll be able to ensure that their mother can retire happily on a beach somewhere while they continue this work. So I'm really thrilled about it.
Chris McAlilly 44:35
I appreciate that you bring up... We started with the EPA, and then we ended up talking a little bit about business innovation and then the role of faith-based communities and nonprofits. I wonder, I mean, it doesn't matter what the conversation is in our politics and climate being one of them. There's always the conversation about the role of government, and I wonder what you have learned about, particularly within the EPA, and around this work, what is it that the government is suited to do well, and what is it that needs to be powered by other organizations and other institutions? I think that's my first question. And then I want to come back and ask about what the church and communities of faith can do specifically.
Heather Toney 45:29
I think that we work together collaboratively. That's when everyone is playing in the game and understanding that we're sharing goals. The government is just one part of this able community of private business, of our nonprofits. But if one is out of whack, and doesn't understand that there's really equity in all of it, then I think that's how we see a lot of the challenges now about government being too big or too small, or what is really the role. There's equal roles among all of us. And I found both in local government as well as federal government, my job was to listen to what people needed. Government is here to help to ensure that we are addressing the needs of the people so that the people themselves can be an active part of government, and that through voting, access to voting, helping to make policy decisions, but that we're also looking at some of the really, really big things that can help to improve the lives of people, and allow them to do the things that they want to do in the ways that they do them best collectively.
Heather Toney 46:57
It's also important for us to understand that we in the United States and the United States government, we're not on this planet by ourselves. We share this earth with other governments, other countries that think differently from us. But we're all in the same ecosystem. So the air that we're breathing right now today is the same air that will be breathed in London, and will keep going around to Asia, Australia and come right back around. We're on one planet. We share this space. And so we have to be understanding and accommodating, that the role of governments to people in our communities have to be really thought through in a way that's open, that's collaborative, that respects our cultures and at the same time, protects the ecosystem that we all share.
Chris McAlilly 47:56
I love talking to mayors. Seriously. People that get their start in politics on the local level, because I mean, you can't avoid collaboration when you're working locally. And you can't avoid that vision of politics. For me, it's so helpful to just get back to people that are working on the local level. I started going to the Board of Supervisors meeting lately, and it's just so great, because you see real people that are bumping up against one another and working through shared problems in a way that's equitable, and in a way that really struggles with, like, what are the dynamics here between the existing infrastructure and new infrastructure and development, etc. So I appreciate that answer. Eddie wants to jump in with a question.
Eddie Rester 48:39
Last question. Somebody out there is listening today, where can they go to, really, it's two parts to one question: Where can they go to learn more? Where would you send them? But also what can we do? What's the call to action for individuals listening today?
Heather Toney 48:59
My favorite question, because there's always something to do, there's always someplace to get involved. And, you know, I think it is important for us to start locally. Like, start at home with what's comfortable to you. For some people it's recycling, right? It's like, okay, we're going to make sure that we're recycling. And that's great. That's a wonderful place to start. But also, you know, recognize that even in that space, there are other decisions that we need to make and be a part of, in terms of where those materials go, how they go there and what is the circular economy, so to speak. How are we making sure that we're not creating and putting new things into the space?
Heather Toney 49:42
So a couple of places: One, I'm absolutely going to send people to Mom's Clean Air Force. It's an organization that I love, and being a mom, it was just very important for me to be connected to a group that looks at how we are protecting our children, giving them hope in the next generation, protecting everything from the air they breathe, to what their opportunities are in the future. And I will say even if you are not a mother, that does not mean you cannot be a part of the group, because there are dads, there are grandmas, cousins, aunts, tias, abuelas, of all of it. Anybody who is concerned about children, and there are a ton of resources at momscleanairforce.org. And it's spelled a thing which sounds M-O-M-S Clean Air Force dot org. And there's even a great Bible study that we have there that we did to help bring attention in the African American community, where we found that there were stereotypes about environmentalism and what environmentalists look like. So there are wonderful, wonderful spaces there.
Heather Toney 50:44
And the larger organization, Moms is a part of the Environmental Defense Fund, where we look at big global solutions. How do we take the best ideas from across the planet and identify ways to reduce our emissions so that we can have some better duck seasons? Because believe it or not, we can actually shift and change some of our behavior right now so that we can see some improvement versus continued decline. Those are some wonderful spaces.
Heather Toney 51:15
On the government side, look for something called the White House Environmental Justice Council. The White House has established a group, a working group of people from all across the country, who are looking at environmental justice issues and making recommendations. And so it's a great place to look to get an overall general idea of what our government is thinking about with respect to environment and climate, the ideas, the plans, on a national level. There's some wonderful material there that people can look at.
Heather Toney 51:54
And then last, but certainly not least, get involved in your local spaces. I've been a mayor before so I know exactly what you mean, you know, this is where the sausage is made, on the local level. And if you want to be involved in climate and environmental issues, don't put yourself in that box of just saying, I can only be on the tree board, or I can only plan for things dealing with recycle and waste. Every single board and commission in our city and county need someone who is thinking about environment and climate impacts. So it doesn't make a difference if it's airport, if it's the street department, if it is, you know, building and grounds. Everybody needs someone who is thinking about how do we make our communities more resilient.
Heather Toney 52:45
And I think that even goes even over into our faith-based communities. Right? I was serious, I was laughing, but I was quite serious when I said it, I think on our congressional hearing that, you know, it's wonderful to talk about electric vehicles infrastructure, but I want at my church. I want to know that, you know, people can create their own brand new career of putting in EV charging stations, at churches, at people's homes, at the gym. If there's going to be funding that comes out for this and just about every single major auto manufacturer is shifting to do more EV material, then yeah, let's put them everywhere. That's not a declaration of anyone's political affiliation. It's simply economics of saying we're providing access to something that is new and innovative and protective for our environment. And you can choose if you like to use it, but we're gonna make sure that you have access to all of these things, and let people experience it for themselves.
Eddie Rester 53:56
Heather, it's been great to talk with you today. Really appreciate you taking some time and helping walk us through a lot of just really important, important topics today.
Heather Toney 54:07
It's been my pleasure. It won't be the last time I'm sure.
Eddie Rester 54:11
Thank you very much.
Eddie Rester 54:12
[OUTRO] Thank you for listening to this episode of The Weight.
Chris McAlilly 54:16
If you liked what you heard today, feel free to share the podcast with other people that are in your network. Leave us a review. That's always really helpful. Subscribe, and you can follow us on our social media channels.
Eddie Rester 54:28
If you have any suggestions or guests you'd like us to interview or anything you'd like to share with us, you can send us an email at info@theweightpodcast.com. [END OUTRO]