0036 - The Weight - Karen Partee - Financially Faithful
Shownotes:
Outside of contributions to the church, most Christians do not consider their use of money as an act of faithful service to God. However, as marketing and social media strategies continue to interfere with our financial lives, all of us become more emotionally attached to our investments across the board. In the midst of a global pandemic, individuals and families are experiencing a health crisis, a social crisis, and an economic crisis all at the same time, and money is the common thread running through all of it. Many of us are operating out of survival mode, unable to truly thrive as we are weighed down by constant financial stress and uncertainty about the future.
Karen Partee serves as the executive vice president and chief marketing officer of Texas Bank and Trust. In this position, she strives to utilize her passion and knowledge to set her customers up for success and counsel those in financial distress. Karen and her family recently downsized, selling 85% of their possessions to be auctioned off and keeping only the bare necessities. Karen’s passion for financial literacy is deeply rooted in her faith, and she sees her work as a vocation that allows her to practice faithful generosity.
She joins Eddie and Chris to discuss our ties to money as proof of self-worth, her passion for financial literacy, the importance of budgeting, and the ways parents can educate their children about money early in their lives. She explains that being conscientious about our financial decisions requires us to search the depths of our souls for the reasons we value our money and the purposes behind what we purchase. When we are honest with ourselves about what we love, desire, and value, we can better align our inner passions with the investments we make.
The Weight Afterthoughts:
We've realized that a lot of great conversation actually happens AFTER we say goodbye to our guests and turn the microphones off. So, we decided to turn the mics back on (and a camera) and create a segment called, Afterthoughts.
Check it out on our Youtube page by clicking the image below!
Full Transcript:
Eddie Rester 0:00
I'm Eddie Rester.
Chris McAlilly 0:02
I'm Chris McAlilly. This is The Weight.
Eddie Rester 0:05
We're glad that you're with us. Today we are talking with Karen Partee, who is a banker. We've never talked to a banker before. I mean, I have but not on the show.
Chris McAlilly 0:15
The reason we're talking to a banker is because we're in the middle of a global pandemic, and financial stress, I think is hitting all of us both at the macro level, and then all the way down to individuals and families. And we know that it's one of those places of life that we don't spend a lot of time talking about even, you know, among family sometimes, but that engagement with I think is important, especially now.
Eddie Rester 0:42
Especially now I think it's a good time for us to sit back and think about what does our spending say about us? What does our savings say about us? How are we, even in the middle of a pandemic, how are we pursuing financial goals so that we can be faithful with our money? I just feel like it's a good moment for us to kind of to do that. And Karen helps us think about budgeting and the tools. And before you think, "Oh, I'm gonna fast forward through this one or skip this one," she really, we really spend a lot of time, more time than I expected, talking about kind of big picture of things.
Chris McAlilly 1:22
Her family made a dramatic life transition that involves downsizing 85% of their possessions. That story is worth hearing.
Eddie Rester 1:31
It's worth the cost, the price of the episode.
Chris McAlilly 1:33
I think so. And then, you know, we kind of get into what is the role of financial services and banking in a community? How do we, you know, garner trust across those relationships so that, you know, we can lead not just a kind of individual lives of flourishing, but what does it look like for banking and financial services to build up a healthy community.
Eddie Rester 1:57
And to have the courage to go ask for help sometimes when you need it. So anyway, great conversation today. It helped me think about things and even how I talk to my daughters about some necessary conversations around money.
Chris McAlilly 2:09
If you really like it, and you really like us in the podcast, you can help us out tremendously by liking, sharing,
Eddie Rester 2:16
Subscribing.
Chris McAlilly 2:17
subscribing, leave a, leave, what do you call it? Not a recommendation. That's not the right thing.
Eddie Rester 2:21
It's a thing. You write a thing about it.
Chris McAlilly 2:23
Yeah, you should write a thing about if you like it.
Eddie Rester 2:25
Write a thing about it, and then share it. Share it with some of your friends as well.
Chris McAlilly 2:29
Yes.
Eddie Rester 2:31
Here we go.
Chris McAlilly 2:32
We go into the episode now.
Eddie Rester 2:34
Now.
Eddie Rester 2:35
[INTRO] Let's be honest, there are some topics that are too heavy for a 20 minute sermon. There are issues that need conversation, not just explanation.
Chris McAlilly 2:45
We believe that the church is called to engage in a way that honors the weightiness and importance of these topics for how we live faithfully today. We'll cover everything from art to mental health, social injustice to the future of the church.
Eddie Rester 2:56
If it's something that culture talks about, we need to be talking about it, too. [END INTRO]
Chris McAlilly 3:03
We're here today with Karen Partee. And we're so glad to have you here today on the podcast.
Karen Partee 3:10
Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be with you guys today.
Eddie Rester 3:15
Tell us a little bit just for folks that, including us, that don't know you, just a little bit about what you do, a little bit about your background.
Karen Partee 3:23
So currently, I work for Texas Bank and Trust, and we are located in east and north Texas, and I oversee the marketing division. I serve as Chief Marketing Officer, and I have seven individuals on my team and we handle all marketing, advertising, and community relations for our 20 branches, located in 14 unique communities throughout northeast Texas.
Eddie Rester 3:52
How long...
Karen Partee 3:52
So... Sorry.
Eddie Rester 3:54
I was gonna say how long have you been doing that? How long have you been working in the banking world?
Karen Partee 3:58
I have been at Texas Bank and Trust for 16 years. And before that I had some background working for a credit union. I've been in my current role 13 years overseeing marketing, but I joined the bank as a business development officer.
Chris McAlilly 4:14
We are recording the podcast kind of, you know, six, eight months into the global pandemic that I think is affecting everybody. And that has a financial dimension to it. We've been kind of watching Washington bounce around an economic relief package, and, you know, regardless of the, you know, people's opinion on the politics of that, or particular policy issues. And I think where it hits most people on the ground for individuals and families is stress and much less if you are a small business owner or you run a nonprofit or you're involved in the church world or whatever. I guess how are you thinking about the current kind of economic picture, both on the big scale and then for individuals and kind of on the ground?
Karen Partee 5:02
Well, it's certainly concerning because we work in banking, and we see individuals. We do see individuals who are making through, making it through with their business, with their family. But we're also confronted with those individuals who are struggling during this time. And that's concerning, to see our friends and neighbors go through this process, not only as individuals and families, but as organizations and nonprofits. And so we want to do our part, and we want to be responsive and help them navigate this tough time. For many people were walking along just fine, I mean, their finances are doing well, pandemic hits, their job has to shut down and no way to provide services except in person. And so they lose their employment. And that just, you know, will send rippling effects, of course, through their family, their future, just even their existence.
Karen Partee 5:55
And so, what we are seeing now is that, you know, people aren't thriving. They are in survival mode. And that can be scary for some, if they have not financially planned for it. But I don't know that we could have all fully planned for this type of situation. We do encourage people to have emergency money and finances set aside. But you know, a whole society where people are in quarantine in large industries, or losing small businesses, I don't know that we fully could have planned for that, and told everybody the key steps to be prepared for something like that. So I have to be honest, it can be concerning to see your friends and neighbors struggle.
Chris McAlilly 6:41
I was talking to a banker in our community, and I remember walking by his office one day, right, when the PPP loan, the first relief stimulus package came out. And he was, you know, just neck deep in applications, and he said, he was sweating. And I talked to him after that, and just about that particular stressful two or three weeks, and he said, "You know, I, for the first time, I really thought of myself not as a banker, but almost like a shrink or pastoral care provider." Because
Karen Partee 7:21
Absolutely.
Chris McAlilly 7:22
you know, I think money is one of those places where people experience despair, you know, a sense of hopelessness, a sense of their life just kind of unraveling and out of control. And I do think, you know, I told my wife, who is a social worker, and I tell her often, in a hospital, and I often tell her that she does more pastoral care than I do on any given day. And that's probably true for bankers in this season.
Karen Partee 7:46
Oh, absolutely. There's no way that we can't become invested in our customers' lives. Because, you know, money... We make a lot of our decisions based on our emotions. And when it comes to our money, we are the most emotional. And so we have to help customers navigate through those periods like this, where you might make a decision based on your emotions that may not be in your best interest. So sometimes you're talking your customer off the ledge of things that they might want to do, because they think, "this is the next best thing that's going to help me and my family," you know, make more money in that respect. And so we do have to be counselors and trusted advisors though, because we have to take a step back, be objective and look at the bigger picture. And, you know, trying to anticipate through what it's gonna look like down the road for them if they make this financial decision for their business, for themselves, or for their family.
Karen Partee 8:42
So there is a lot of counseling involved. As I told you, I started out as a business development officer. And so I would, you know, work with prospective and existing customers. And I just will never forget the day that I had a customer in my office, crying because, you know, she was having to decide between keeping the lights on or buying diapers for her baby. And to be confronted, you know, a lot of times we know that people are struggling financially, but when it's right there in your face, in seeing the helplessness and even hopelessness of a customer having to make that decision. And you never want anyone that you are in contact with to have to be confronted with making what we would all consider a very basic decision or doing basic life decision for them and their family. But it happens more often than not, and I've just never forgotten that moment. And it's probably fueled my passion for financial literacy, because I don't want anybody else to ever have to make that decision.
Eddie Rester 9:46
As I think about your career, you've worked in banking through the 2008 crisis and now through this crisis. I want us to get to talking about financial literacy, and just some basic concepts for all of us to think about during these days, because, you know, as we look at the jobs reports, and the predictions for a lot of those small jobs, small businesses won't exist after all this is over. How would you compare these two financial moments, 2008 and this? Any differences that you see and how they're playing out?
Karen Partee 10:21
Just the extreme nature of this one, that so many more individuals, I would say, are impacted. And we know that back in 2008, much of what the downturn in the economy centered around was home mortgages, and individuals possibly getting into mortgages that maybe were beyond their financial means. Whereas, you know, this crisis, we are facing at the same time a health crisis, an economic crisis, and a social crisis, where it's involving all of us. We are all impacted. Whereas it may have been just one segment of our society was impacted.
Karen Partee 11:03
And so you find yourself being pulled in so many different ways of having to help on so many different fronts. And so, you know, but money is that common thread that runs through all of it: the health crisis, it still involves money; the social crisis still involves money. You know, and certainly, of course, where we are now with the economic crisis. We are all impacted. That is the greatest difference, because there's not one of us who are not going to get out of this without being affected.
Chris McAlilly 11:34
I wonder, what do you think is a healthy way to think about our relationship to money and its place in our lives? I think sometimes it can be... I think, if you're dealing with the realities of a crisis situation, it can have an outsized role, especially if you're in dire straits. I guess, how do you think about what's a healthy relationship to money and finances?
Karen Partee 11:58
Well, I think one of the things we really need to do is we need to start checking in with ourselves on the emotional reasons why we spend money, and why we value money, because we all know, it's not just out of necessity. And I really do encourage individuals to really soul search about their relationship with money. You know, we buy things in all different manners for--let's be honest--validation, acceptance, status, competition, and then sometimes it is for enjoyment and survival.
Karen Partee 12:39
But we really need to look at money as a means to an end. It should not be a measure of self worth. And I think that's where we do get into trouble and we get into dire straits with money because maybe we've overspent because we want money to provide a comfort for us that we haven't been able to find somewhere else. So there's a lot of soul searching that we need to think about, and change our relationship with money.
Karen Partee 13:08
It should do things for us, but it should not be the reason why we exist. We need to find passions in other places. And I know that's getting really philosophical. But if people were to take a step back and say, "How did I get myself in this situation?" Let's put the pandemic aside. "How did I get myself in this situation?" You gotta think about, why did you spend all that money?
Eddie Rester 13:31
Right.
Karen Partee 13:32
What caused you to spend all that money? And it is hard to say, "Well, I was looking for validation. I was looking for acceptance. I was looking for status." It's really hard to have that conversation with yourself.
Eddie Rester 13:44
You know, I counsel with young couples sometimes and they end up what I call house poor or car poor.
Karen Partee 13:50
Right.
Eddie Rester 13:51
Where they've overextended on a car that they thought they had to have, but are in you know, are making a house payment or a car and just don't have money for anything else. And, you know, there are lots of other things like that, that we get kind of pulled in. I think, before you can even begin to have a conversation about specifics around money, I think it is important to have that kind of that personal conversation of "what am I spending money for? Is it a means to an end to get me the things I need to exist in the world? Or am I trying to prove something to myself or others?"
Chris McAlilly 14:26
Well, isn't it that the entire... I mean, it's not just the use of money and the place of money in our lives. I mean, we have a whole, there's a whole, you know, marketing. And I would be interested to know how you think about the larger kind of consumer marketing industry that is not just, you know, I mean, they have a vested interest in shaping our desires and our wants.
Karen Partee 14:46
Oh, absolutely.
Chris McAlilly 14:47
Validating, yeah, trying to pull us in particular directions to spend money for those very reasons.
Karen Partee 14:55
Marketing, social media, all of it plays into creating this "I need this." I mean, we've kind of distorted this whole notion of need. And it does come from, you know, marketing, it comes from social media, it comes from peer pressure, it comes from, you know, how we felt about ourselves when we were so much younger, when people told us, "This is what you need to be successful."
Karen Partee 15:21
I mean, we all heard that as kids, "You need to be this, this, and this to be successful." And somewhere in there, you know, money played a part in that, in wanting us to have certain possessions or look a certain way. And I think I saw a quote on social media that you know, the cosmetic industry, where would they be today if women truly felt great about how they look? So we've created this, where you need this to feel better, you need this to look like people will accept you. And so it all plays into it. It's a much greater picture. And yes, you know, marketing plays into it. Social media plays into it. The people we surround ourselves, we're all buying into it.
Chris McAlilly 16:05
I think you quickly get into theological territory, and really just human territory, it really is about what is it that I want? Why do I want what I want? What is shaping my understanding of my needs? And how do I have my...
Eddie Rester 16:18
Yeah, shaping the needs of my identity.
Karen Partee 16:19
Oh, absolutely. And like I said, it requires soul searching. I will tell you, about a year and a half ago, my husband, my son, and I, we moved from East Texas to North Texas. So we're in the Metroplex area of North Texas. And to do that, though, I really started to do some soul searching about whether or not I wanted to continue myself to be a homeowner. And you know, like everybody else, I had bought a home and filled to the brim with different possessions. And I told my husband, I wanted to explore truly downsizing. And so we did move from a 3600 square foot house to a 1300 square foot townhome.
Eddie Rester 17:07
Wow.
Karen Partee 17:07
And to do that required us to sell 85% of our possessions. And I'll tell you, we had a lot of people tell us, "how are you able to do that?"
Chris McAlilly 17:10
So are you gonna give us the secret now? Is that... [LAUGHTER]
Karen Partee 17:24
Well, I'll tell you what we did. We went through our house, we put the things that we needed to survive, that we actually use, and things that provided meaningful connection to us, you know, from our past, or, you know, even the present. And we gathered all those things, loaded up a U-Haul, and left our house to an estate sale company to do the rest, and didn't look back. Because realizing the rest of it was just stuff. It was just expensive window dressing in our lives. And I was looking at things and going oh, my gosh, I hadn't touched that in two years. And I really did have to soul search about, "Okay, I think I bought that because I think I saw somebody else have that too." But I never really used it.
Chris McAlilly 18:07
Did you do the Marie Kondo thing?
Eddie Rester 18:11
To bring joy.
Karen Partee 18:12
I didn't, no. I didn't hold things and then say, "you created joy." I think that can be an overwhelming process.
Chris McAlilly 18:20
That gives me anxiety.
Eddie Rester 18:23
I love that...
Chris McAlilly 18:23
Impressive that you did that.
Eddie Rester 18:24
I love that you left it to the auction company, estate sale company to do it. Because when we moved to Oxford from Hattiesburg, we had to downsize our house size when we moved here. And we purged, like three times, and we have Audra's grandmother's house, about 20 minutes away. And six and a half years later, we still have boxes and baskets and stuff there that we keep saying we just need throw it all away. Now we just don't have the motivation to go get rid of it.
Chris McAlilly 18:52
You know, it's interesting...
Karen Partee 18:53
Because you haven't touched it.
Eddie Rester 18:54
Yeah.
Karen Partee 18:55
And I did try to tell my husband that: if you haven't touched something in six months, you're probably not going to use it. You know. So it is a benefit for us to live in a townhome where we actually don't have a lot of closets. So the things that I have on display now in my home provide meaning for me. The things that we have in our home are useful to us, or we need them in some way to survive. I can't tell you that that's right for everyone, because it does require you to break with "I need to have stuff in my life." And one of the things that I have, I tried to encourage my parents to do the same thing. I had to say to my mom, "Mom, your things don't love you back." Because we all we try to convince ourselves, "I've got to have all this stuff. I love it." It's not returning the favor.
Chris McAlilly 19:51
At the end of... my grandfather passed away last year, and he was born in the Depression and kind of poor Mississippi dirt farmer family, and he was also a pastor. So he moved from place to place. But he had this warehouse that he built on a friend's land in the town that he planned to retire, and his whole career, he would bring treasures there. And some of them were serious treasures. And some of them were just, you know,
Eddie Rester 20:29
"What do we do with this now?"
Chris McAlilly 20:31
quote-unquote "treasures." There's like, I don't know, you know, governor signs and old wood and a lot of old tools. And at the end of this, I remember going there after he, right at the end of his life, and right after he died and just thinking about that all of those things, you know. In some ways, there were some things that tied me and connected me to him that I took with me.
Karen Partee 20:53
Right
Chris McAlilly 20:54
that I do think, I don't know, there is something about those physical objects that is important to me still, but the majority of it, I do think you're right, it kind of falls away. And I think we all have those moments. I mean, I think both looking at our parents or grandparents and then also as you look at your children, and I can't tell you how many pieces of plastic that don't fit with other pieces of plastic I have in my house. It is awesome.
Eddie Rester 21:23
And you keep them because you think you're gonna find the pieces of plastic that they fit with.
Chris McAlilly 21:26
When I start sweeping them up, and I probably shouldn't say this in a public forum.
Eddie Rester 21:34
I don't think your kids are listening.
Chris McAlilly 21:35
I don't think my kids are listening to the podcast yet. So if you ever, you know, guys, if you're ever listening into the future, I'm sorry. [LAUGHTER] Sweep them up and put them in the trash.
Eddie Rester 21:47
Well, let's think a little bit about, let's kind of move the conversation, just as you think about a healthy financial life, what are some of the pillars of that or pieces of that, that you would say if you're talking to somebody who maybe is struggling or a marriage that they are just at each other's throats right now around bill paying time, or they're looking at Christmas coming up, they're like, "I don't know what to do with Christmas coming up other than buy stuff." What are some of those pillars that you would want people to kind of lean back on as they think about their financial life?
Karen Partee 22:21
I'm going to start with one of the most obvious and that is budgeting. And I say that, because I know when I say that to people, and particularly young people today, there is a little bit of a rolling of the eyes. Because you know, budgeting is very much like exercising. We all know that it's in our best interest, and that we need to get started. But yet we procrastinate. Because inevitably, there's going to be change that needs to be made in how we're spending our money and saving our money is part of the process. And that change for many of us equates to sacrifice: What am I going to have to give up to be on this budget?
Karen Partee 23:01
But the pillar here is that budgeting is as much a lifestyle mindset as it is an action to manage your personal finances. You know, you've got to be thinking about how you truly want to live. Do you want to live always under the anxiety that I'm not going to have enough money? Or do you want to feel comfortable, and that the things that are your essentials are paid for, your shelter is paid for you, you have an opportunity to enjoy life to some degree, and you have some peace of mind.
Karen Partee 23:36
And that does start with budgeting. It helps us to, particularly in the times that we're living in, face financial implications of adversity, losing a job, or for many college graduates this year, not being able to find a job right away. Although we've been told all our lives, go to college, get a degree, you'll find work, you know, they're finding the reality of that it's not as easy. You know, and even as we go through this health crisis, now some individuals have mounting medical expenses. And so budgeting helps us face some of that, because we kind of planned for this time of adversity.
Karen Partee 24:17
But again, the thought of having more restrictions on our money can be overwhelming. And things at that moment seem like they're out of control. But the idea of money management, now more than ever, is about being able to take some measure of control where we can. And so to start that budgeting, look at all your sources of income, and then go back and then be really open and honest about where all of your expenses are. And a lot of times people don't want to start looking at that because they, one, they may not know exactly where all their money goes. They just know it leaves every paycheck. And let's not kid ourselves: even individuals who have very high incomes, they can still be living paycheck to paycheck. And so it's not a question of, "I need to make more money." It's "What am I doing with my money that I make?" And that's where people need to be honest, because higher incomes, you're gonna live to the level of income. And so your possessions may cost a little bit more. But overall, you still may have some anxiety about being able to afford the next thing.
Eddie Rester 25:28
I had a couple one time that after they got married, showed back up in my office, because the wife had not been honest with the husband about her student loans. And so several months into the marriage, he realized, oh, we're paying out several unbudgeted hundreds of dollars a month,
Karen Partee 25:49
Right
Eddie Rester 25:49
in student loans, just because they hadn't really been honest with each other about debts that they were bringing into the marriage.
Karen Partee 25:56
Absolutely. And you do have to be, we know--you're doing the counseling, you know, that money figures into a lot of relationships and can fracture those relationships. Because you might have one person in the household who does want to save money, and you have another person in the household, who, you know, if they've got $1, they've got to spend it. So you do, in a household, you have to be on the same page. You start that with your budgeting, because you've got to see where the money is going first. And see, that's when you can start making some changes.
Karen Partee 26:32
But think long term. I think a lot of times, because we're in the moment right now, people want to stay in the moment and not think long term and about how they want your money to grow, how they want their money to work for them. We hear that a lot, "I want my money to work for me, not the other way around." And right now, in survival mode, a lot of people are working very hard for their money, and not getting it to actually provide them a comfortable living where it's working for them. And keeping tabs right now, for many people is very different, difficult, because, you know, many of us have abandoned our financial plans, if we had one in place, right now, and it's because we are in survival mode. We've totally just gone off the rails with that. Or we just want to avoid planning altogether. Because again, it can be painful to start thinking about making those changes and sacrifices right now. And we're trying to keep our heads above water, really trying to make sense of life.
Karen Partee 27:33
And so where budgeting comes in, is, let's look for the small wins, you know, instead of tracking every dollar. You know, look at your income, set a realistic dollar amount that you think you could safely spend, even in this time of anxiety. And consider using, you know, tools to do that, you know, technology tools like budgeting maps. If you don't want to get that technical about it, you know, maybe just consider the e-banking support services and resources that your local bank might provide for you. At least you have an idea of where your money's going and you can see use of that money in real time.
Karen Partee 28:16
And then, you know what I would also say, cancel something. We know that lifestyles are different right now. And we don't need everything in our life that we had pre-pandemic. So just keep in mind, just tell yourself, "This could just be temporary. I just need to get out of this moment." And so to garner some positive momentum, pay off a smaller balance first, as opposed to a lower interest rate because that will give you some immediate wins. And it will really spark you wanting to continue to see that. And, you know, in financial world, we call that snowballing. You'll have more positive effects, things, you know, immediate instant gratification. And right now in our instant society, we need that. We need that push to say, "Okay, I think I can keep doing it until it actually becomes a habit for me." You know?
Karen Partee 29:12
I would also consider the emergency fund. And sometimes I do hesitate to say that in this moment. But if you've ever heard any financial advisor encourage people to have an ER fund for their household, and that would be having a stash of about three to six months living expenses. So you would really need to look at your household, what it really takes to keep the lights on, food in the refrigerator, everybody, you know, their medical insurance, all of that and set that aside in some sort of savings style account.
Karen Partee 29:12
The issue with that is we have a lot of occasions right now, their monthly income may not be as stable as it once was. You know, they've lost their job, maybe they're doing odd jobs now. And so or they just they work in, you know, 100% commission type jobs. So it's not easy to predict how much they're going to have. If you can't set aside that amount, maybe consider the same percentage from each paycheck, you know. It's something I did in a previous life. I did outside sales, and I was 100%. commission. But you know, to ensure that I could pay my taxes to pay my rent, I would take a certain percentage out every month, and I settled on 10%. And I immediately put it in a savings account. It was pay yourself first, building up my savings, before I got into actually spending it.
Eddie Rester 30:48
I had a man early in my life, say, "You pay the church 10% and you pay yourself 10%."
Karen Partee 30:55
Absolutely. You got to do it off the top. A lot of people want to do it in the reverse, you know, they will pay their church 10%, they'll pay their bills, and then they'll say if there's anything left over... but just ahead of savings, they spend it on discretionary type activities. And so usually there's not a lot of savings first. So I would pay your church, pay yourself, pay your bills, then whatever's left over, you use it for discretionary activities.
Karen Partee 31:25
And with that, I would say a complimentary account to have would be a fun money account. It is something I set up again, when I was in 100% commission working. So this is the account that I put all that discretionary income, after everything else has been paid. And it builds itself up. And then when I do want to do something that is not necessarily in my budget, I can go to my fun money. And that's the intent of it. But again, that money goes into that account after everything else, the essentials are taken care of. Your church and yourself should be considered part of those essentials. So it's, you've got to just account for everything.
Chris McAlilly 32:05
One of the things I'm thinking about as you're kind of describing some of these basics, you know, one is that it seems like the kind of basic skill set that you shouldn't wait until you're making money and saving money. Until you're kind of fully into adulthood to start, you know, learning about it. I think some families do a good job of passing that through the family system. But you've done some work with children's financial literacy. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Karen Partee 32:39
Absolutely. So in 2005, we brought in a children's program called the Cool Kids Savings Club Program, and it's open to kids, 0 to 12. So we encourage parents to open this app for their children, grandparents, even neighbors and friends as a way to get the idea of money management and money education for kids. And it's been a phenomenal program for us in this 15 years. We do have a club mascot, Digits the Dollar Dog goes out to schools. And he teaches them to save, teach children to save, so there's a big push for that every April. And we get to go and talk to them about savings. Because I will tell you, kids at the age of four years old know how to spend money. So they should be taught how to save it ,too. And kids are phenomenal savers.
Chris McAlilly 33:32
Disney Jr. has taught them.
Eddie Rester 33:33
Disney Jr. has taught them. American Girls taught my daughters the power of money.
Karen Partee 33:37
The power of money, you know? You know, my son was younger, he said, "Mom, just whip out that card you have, and we can pay for it." You know, it's not that simple, because that card requires you to have money.
Eddie Rester 33:50
Behind the card. Yeah.
Karen Partee 33:52
That's right. And so you do need to teach them early because they see, you know, kids are going to... I heard a really great quote the other day that kids will learn more from your example than from your advice. So you really have to be practicing what you preach, because that's what they're going to pick up on. If they see you not saving, if they see you, you know, in that they're going to pick up on that anxiety. And they will develop their money habits based on how their parents have money habits. So don't think your children are not watching and don't think that they're too young to understand the value of money.
Karen Partee 34:30
They've got to learn these really essential, you know, education parameters really young. And so that's the whole point of our Cool Kids program. And as I said, we've got 1300 members now, and they're doing a phenomenal job saving. A lot of them, we got when they were really really young. And so we stay connected with them with some online programming, with some in-school programming. And we just try to stay connected to them in the value of giving saving and spending and what order you really should be doing that.
Chris McAlilly 35:03
Eddie wants to jump in here, but I heard somebody on the topic of parenting and kids looking not at what you say but what you do. I heard somebody say recently that parenting is a silent movie. It's just they're not paying attention to what you say as much as what you do.
Eddie Rester 35:21
And I was just sitting here thinking my dad was a small business owner, which meant that a lot of financial conversations happened around the table at lunch or Sunday lunch or Sunday dinner, you know, orders that were coming in, refinancing things for the store, I mean, so there were a lot of conversations, things I just picked up from my parents not so much learning what to do as much even as what questions to eventually ask. How does this work? Oh, you've got an accountant. Oh, that's what an accountant does. So, you know, I think it's important for parents to not be afraid sometimes to talk to their kids about why they're not doing something and why they are getting to do stuff. Rather than always, "we're not doing that," or "we're going to go do this now," or things like that.
Chris McAlilly 36:07
I do think that this is a spiritual conversation. Because how we use money, how we engage with the created world, I think there's a misnomer sometimes that the spiritual life is really just kind of internal and God-focused and really about what happens after we die. And I think the more you get into discipleship and faith, it's really, it's what you love. It's what you want, what you desire, what you value.
Karen Partee 36:38
Absolutely.
Chris McAlilly 36:39
Being honest about those things, and interrogating them and kind of examining them and then moving in the direction of aligning what you value with what you actually do with your time and your money and your resources.
Eddie Rester 36:53
John Wesley, a minute ago, you said giving, saving, and spending, those big three pieces. John Wesley, the leader of the Methodist movement, he preached a sermon on the proper use of money. He told those Methodists earn all you can; in other words, be faithful to the work that you can do. Save all you can, which is save, not just put money aside, but also look at what you're spending and save when you can. And give all you can. And he felt like if you did the first two well, the third would come natural. So yeah.
Karen Partee 37:23
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. For me, going back to my whole family downsizing example, a lot of the reason why I think I could do that and easily walk away from those things that I just consider stuff is rooted deeply in my faith. You know, I have been talking about some issues and working with my son and some medical issues that he has had, you know, I've really been more cognizant of being quiet, being still, trying to find out what God is wanting me to do in this life, and it is to be a messenger to people, helping to, you know, more, spiritually utilize their money. I think so, because what I've done is I've finally gotten content in my life and in my relationship with money, in my relationship with possessions, and realize that that's not what He has me here for is to stockpile. It's to give, to be a witness to that giving, and helping somebody else come along in the process.
Karen Partee 38:31
So all of this, my passion for financial literacy is definitely rooted in my faith. Because, you know, my dad has always said, "You know what, Karen? If you're successful, then you're going to need to use that to help somebody else be successful, too." And so I've just never forgotten that. And I've just, I enjoyed talking to my dad about his faith and why he did the things that he did. My dad was an incredibly generous man. And I just I watched him do it. I watched it open his wallet, time and time again, to somebody who came in and said, "I've run out of gas." My dad was a small business owner, too, and people would regularly walk into his store and say, "I need gas money to get from here to there." He would invite soldiers into our home at Thanksgiving who didn't have a place to go. And I just remember the level of generosity and it was the foundation. It was what God was whispering to me to change your relationship with money and what it means in your life.
Eddie Rester 39:34
Adam Hamilton, in his book about money, says that he believes that most people want to be generous. They want the freedom to be able to do what you're talking about: helping people, giving faithfully to their church or other causes that they believe in. But most of them set up their own restrictions, because they're just not, they're not saving well or they're not spending well.
Eddie Rester 39:59
I think we've got a few more minutes to talk and one of the things we were wanting to ask you is, in this moment, you know, people are struggling I think with money, jobs, job creation, what's the role of the financial services industry during a time like this? If there's somebody listening and thinking, "Gosh, this is all great, but I've got this problem financially." Either income not coming in or I've spent down my savings or... what help can they get from whether a bank or an advisor? What's available?
Karen Partee 40:37
So many resources available at your local financial institution, wherever that may be. And I just encourage you to call them up. While we call ourselves trusted advisors, that's a very specific term we use here at Texas Bank and Trust, every banker, every financial advisor, they really serve in that role. And I don't know that we necessarily tap that as much as we should, as a society. We look at our bankers, and we think of transactional relationships. But most bankers, particularly community bankers, they're more about relationships, and they want to help you succeed, they truly do. So I think if there are individuals who are struggling to make loan payments, call up your local bank and say, "Can we make arrangements?" And they understand what's going on. You don't have to explain it to them during this time. And I know that they will sit down and they will work through your particular situation, and see what they can do to help with, you know, looking at the different terms, perhaps with deferment, you know. So there are different resources and different tools that your bankers can use. But you got to, you pick up the phone and call them.
Karen Partee 41:57
And this is a time to really reach out to them and allow them to be a resource for you. But I would just say call. Because every situation is going to be different. And every financial institution has different parameters that they operate under, but call yours. And just ask them, "How can you help me?" You might be surprised what the response will be. But they may not know that you need their help. If you're just sitting out there and overwhelmed by the anxiety, they're ready to help.
Eddie Rester 42:29
Because sometimes we get in situations, it's not that we've misspent, it's that things have happened and it's just so different a place than we were earlier, or a year ago or two months, six months ago, even.
Chris McAlilly 42:40
I think that the word to think of our... I think we're in a moment culturally where we distrust institutions broadly, and that's across the board. That's churches, government,
Karen Partee 42:56
Right.
Chris McAlilly 42:56
you know, banks and financial institutions, and there are a lot of good reasons for that suspicion and distrust. And, you know, I think we're prone to see a lot of these relations--there's this breakdown, a community breakdown, I think, that leads in the direction of these more transactional, relational dynamics being at play. I definitely hear in your story and kind of the way that you think about your work, I can hear a different spirit. I think you're right, that it's more broadly held within the financial services industry.
Chris McAlilly 43:34
And I think the thing that I hear in your story is a kind of vocation. I've got a friend of mine who's in business and he worries about, you know, what it looks like for him to live a faithful life and he knows he's not called to preach or go be a missionary somewhere. And I think that's, for me, I think what I hear in your story is just a great example of a person living a faithful life in a job that's not normally thought of as a spiritual vocation. You know, money is not, it doesn't, we don't associate money with spirituality.
Eddie Rester 44:09
Although Jesus talked about it more than anything, any other topic.
Chris McAlilly 44:12
Yeah. And I think that's very encouraging to me to hear the way in which you're embodying your work. And the folks in I guess, East and North Texas are lucky to have somebody like you in the work. And we're grateful for your time today talking about this.
Karen Partee 44:29
Thank you so much for that. I just kind of live by the rule that God expects me to demonstrate my faith every day. And so you know, between the hours of eight and five, I still should be leading a faithful life, you know, as a Christian, and I hope that my work speaks to that I'm a believer and that I'm here to help.
Eddie Rester 44:50
Well, it's been great to talk with you today. If you ever get to Oxford, we'd love to take you for a cup of coffee.
Karen Partee 44:56
Absolutely. I'm looking forward to that. I appreciate the opportunity to just share my story.
Chris McAlilly 45:01
Thanks so much, Karen.
Karen Partee 45:03
Thank you.
Eddie Rester 45:04
[OUTRO] Thank you for listening today. Go ahead and follow us on Facebook and Twitter. And go ahead and hit the subscribe button on whatever platform you use to listen to podcasts.
Chris McAlilly 45:15
This wouldn't be possible without our partner, General Board of Higher Education and Ministry. We want to thank also our producer, Cody Hickman. Follow us next week. We'll be back with another episode of The Weight. [END OUTRO]