0025 - The Weight - Justin Posey - The Social Art of Jesus Culture
Show Notes:
In just a decade, social media has completely changed what it looks like for local churches to fulfill its mission. Such a revolution in outreach has provided new opportunities for churches to enrich their own church family while also engaging new audiences. However, with opportunity comes some challenges worth considering; primarily the need to prioritize in-person connection and tight knit community. How can the Body of Christ utilize social media without diminishing the depth of relationship that it is called to cultivate?
This week on The Weight, we welcome Justin Posey of Jesus Culture, a church community and worship collective based out of Sacramento, California. Justin serves as the Social Media Manager for Jesus Culture after having worked with Bethel Church in content development. With a passion for faithfulness and integrity in digital outreach efforts, Justin talks to us about what it means to use social media with a “Kingdom mindset” and as a catalyst for a more personal connection.
Chris, Cody, and Eddie talk to Justin about the journey that brought him from north Mississippi to his current position and the lessons learned about the role that digital outreach plays in the Church’s mission. Specifically, they discuss what the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic and resulting pauses of in-person gathering has revealed about how digital mediums can be used for community connection and the importance of people remaining plugged in to their local church in a time where many are fleeing to more technologically-savvy congregations. This episode can help us dig deeper into a conversation of what churches will need to keep in mind as we discern the place of social media both during this season of life and in the future.
The Weight - Afterthoughts
We've realized that a lot of great conversation actually happens AFTER we say goodbye to our guests and turn the microphones off. So, we decided to turn the mics back on (and a camera) and create a new segment called, Afterthoughts.
This will live on our new YouTube channel and you can find our Afterthoughts on this episode NOW!
Resources:
Jesus Culture is “a global movement awakening hearts to worship and serve God.” Learn more about them on their website: https://jesusculture.com/
Get to know Justin and check out his portfolio at his website: https://justinposey.com/
Follow Justin on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/loveinjustin/
Follow Jesus Culture on social media:
https://www.facebook.com/jesusculture/
https://twitter.com/jcsacramento
https://www.instagram.com/jesusculture/
https://www.youtube.com/user/jesusculture
https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/jesus-culture/id319089613
https://open.spotify.com/artist/0Onvkz1Nbs4wHXXUwOIGk8
Full Transcript:
Eddie Rester 0:00
I'm Eddie Rester.
Cody Hickman 0:01
And I'm Cody Hickman.
Eddie Rester 0:02
Welcome to The Weight. Today we have Cody sitting in. Actually on the episode, you get all three, which is a first.
Cody Hickman 0:11
It is a first. But we couldn't safely fit all three at the table so we just... we kicked Chris out.
Eddie Rester 0:16
We kicked Chris out. So Cody's here. Justin Posey is on the episode with us. He is the Communications Director. He works with social media at Jesus Culture Church in Folsom, California. Grew up with you, just outside Tupelo, and so we got to have a great conversation with him about a lot of different things.
Cody Hickman 0:36
Yeah, we dug into, you know, a little bit about what he does day-to-day in his job, but really the meat of this episode is what is the role of social media personally and as the church.
Eddie Rester 0:50
I think, if anybody on social media thinks that it's all sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns right now out ther,... I don't know, what, you probably only have two friends or something.
Cody Hickman 1:04
Right. And hiding.
Eddie Rester 1:04
You've been hiding or you've unfollowed everybody. But we're in this moment right now, we're just... there's this undercurrent of anger and cynicism. There's a lot of misinformation that gets passed around, so there's frustration around that. And the truth is, and there are a lot of articles about this, Christians are more likely to pass on misinformation than non-Christians.
Cody Hickman 1:35
100% believe that.
Eddie Rester 1:36
Christians are more likely to jump on completely untrue stories and pass them on more so than non-Christians. And that's troubling. And I think it's time for us as followers of Jesus and for churches to think about, how do we use this tool? How do we not use this tool?
Cody Hickman 1:59
Right. Think of it as a tool. Think of using it responsibly and think about what your endgame is. Is this something to build your follower base? Or is this something to build the kingdom of God?
Eddie Rester 2:11
Right. So it's gonna be a great conversation. We get to hear at least one of Cody's nicknames, which is always helpful to hear a little bit
Cody Hickman 2:19
Only one.
Eddie Rester 2:19
about his past. Justin, if you're listening, I need you to email me at erester@ouumc.org and let's talk about that other nickname that you wouldn't give us. But it's a great episode. I thank Cody for being in on episode with us. And yeah.
Cody Hickman 2:36
Stick around.
Eddie Rester 2:39
[INTRO] Let's be honest, there are some topics that are too heavy for 20 minutes sermon. There are issues that need conversation, not just explanation.
Chris McAlilly 2:47
We believe that the church is called to engage in a way that honors the weightiness and importance of these topics for how we live faithfully today. We'll cover everything from art to mental health, social injustice to the future of the church.
Eddie Rester 2:58
If it's something that culture talks about, we need to be talking about it, too. [END INTRO]
Eddie Rester 3:04
Today on The Weight, we have Justin Posey. Now, we also have Cody Hickman on a microphone today.
Cody Hickman 3:12
That's right. So I was on one recently
Eddie Rester 3:14
Recently with Hannah.
Cody Hickman 3:15
We kicked you off.
Eddie Rester 3:16
Right.
Cody Hickman 3:16
And it was just me and Chris.
Eddie Rester 3:18
Right.
Cody Hickman 3:18
And Chris argued for you to come back. I was against it. I was totally against it. But here we are.
Eddie Rester 3:23
But here we are.
Chris McAlilly 3:24
I saved you, man.
Eddie Rester 3:25
Well, thanks. I appreciate that. I'm still on. But one of the reasons we have Cody on the microphone today is because Justin and Cody grew up together. And so Justin's here to
Justin Posey 3:35
That's true.
Eddie Rester 3:36
tell us Cody stories.
Cody Hickman 3:38
Yeah, that's why Justin's here--to tell you all the dirt on me today.
Eddie Rester 3:41
That's right. No, Justin, actually, we've invited you for a lot of reasons. One, you work at a church in Folsom, California, called Jesus Culture. So we're going to get to some things, but tell us a little bit about that church and what you do there.
Justin Posey 3:59
Yeah, absolutely. Just want to say thanks for having me, guys. It's a real honor to be on your podcast with you. And Cody, I'm glad you have a microphone this time. So happy to make that a reality.
Cody Hickman 4:11
Dream's coming true, that you're here today.
Justin Posey 4:14
Yeah, I'm with a church in Folsom called Jesus Culture--Jesus Culture, Sacramento--and a lot of people know Jesus Culture from their music, but it's actually a local church here in Folsom, California. And we've been around for right at five years now, as a local church and roughly 20 years as a movement. I've been with Jesus Culture for a little over two years as a communications director. I'm in everything from social media to email and website copy and language and all that good stuff. So that's kind of a little about me and the church.
Cody Hickman 5:02
Yeah. Tell us a little bit about kind of your journey to the church stuff. I know that maybe stepping back a little bit, but you know, you were on the music route for a little while and then you left me in Tupelo is what happened, and you went down to Shreveport. And then you kind of made this journey over California.
Eddie Rester 5:19
That's a long way from Saltillo, Mississippi
Cody Hickman 5:21
Right?
Eddie Rester 5:21
to Sacramento, California.
Chris McAlilly 5:22
Yeah, everybody goes by way of Shreveport, right?
Cody Hickman 5:25
By Shreveport.
Justin Posey 5:26
It's kind of wild, right? First off, I just...the whole journey, I felt super underqualified and that's just how, you know, Jesus would do that, right? You just promote the underqualified. But yeah, I was pursuing a music career in Tupelo, Mississippi with you, Cody. We were
Cody Hickman 5:49
Phoenix and Bear, man. Phoenix and Bear. That was another nickname! Phoenix and Bear.
Justin Posey 5:54
Yeah, that's it. That's it.
Cody Hickman 5:56
I don't know what happened with that, man. It was, like, uh, was that like our production thing? I think it was Phoenix and Bear Productions is what we tried to do. We can skip that part.
Chris McAlilly 6:04
[LAUGHTER]
Eddie Rester 6:05
Okay, I'm just making a list over here for explanations later y'all just, you know... Shreveport,
Justin Posey 6:12
Oh, yeah. So it was one of the last kind of... let me back up a little bit. I think I had arrived at a place where I was just ready to surrender music to the Lord and me chasing my own, I think, ideas and wishes and dreams and really submitting that to the Lord. And we were going to Origins, Cody, I, you know, I think it's because of you that I even ended up there. And it really changed my life, connecting with Jason McAnally.
Justin Posey 6:44
And I even tell him this to this day--just him connecting with me at Cafe 212 just down the road and talking about, you know, the Bible and Jesus and the world. It just really molded me and changed me, and anyway that I got to a place where I just wanted to surrender music. And I remember God telling me to just go out on one last little stint, you know, with Drew Gatlin because that opportunity had come up. And so I did it. And we played, I don't know, something like 30-something shows over two months, all across the United States, in backyards and actual venues and stuff like that. But it was on this kind of tour that I connected with some people in Shreveport, a church there called Church at Red River.
Justin Posey 7:40
And after the tour was over, just kind of felt like I was supposed to move down there. And I didn't really know what was going to happen. But I felt like I was supposed to move down there and go to this church and be a part of this organization called Clear Camp, which was kind of like a summer camp ministry, leading worship. And I had no idea what was in store for me. But I decided to take the plunge, and I moved down there. I didn't have a place to live. I didn't have a job. I mean, it was really an act of faith on my part, I, I just didn't know what to expect.
Justin Posey 8:21
But on the drive down, I had my car loaded with just everything I could fit in because I was moving, and I got two phone calls. One was from a good friend of mine who said, "Hey, you can live with us until you find a place," and the other one was from the the leader of this summer camp ministry, and he said, "Hey, I found you a job at, like, a print shop, just as a graphic designer until you can find something better." And so, you know, it's just like stepping out as that act of faith, God provided. I moved down. I got connected with the church, and they eventually hired me. It was a really small team, but I ended up becoming kind of, I guess what would be considered creative director, in a sense, because I was just handling all things creative for this church. And I was also leading worship at Church at Red River. And it was awesome. Love the church. I grew a ton. I'm really thankful for my time there. And then I met a girl, as we all know. She is now my wife.
Chris McAlilly 8:28
As one does.
Justin Posey 9:33
We started dating.
Eddie Rester 9:34
That's the way every great story begins.
Justin Posey 9:37
Met a girl.
Cody Hickman 9:38
Hannah's really a lot cooler person than Justin, too.
Justin Posey 9:42
She is. I will say this publicly: she's funnier than I am.
Eddie Rester 9:46
All of our wives are cooler than all of us.
Chris McAlilly 9:48
That's true.
Cody Hickman 9:49
Yeah, we all have that same story.
Justin Posey 9:51
Yeah. Yeah. So I met her, and we dated for a while, and then I proposed, and we decided we were going to get married. And it was kind of in that waiting-to-get married that we just, we felt like our time had come, kind of, in this area, in this region, and that we were to move out west. We didn't really know where we're going to end up. And so I put in a three-month notice at church, because I really wanted to train someone up to cover my role. That was really important to me.
Justin Posey 10:23
And I just started applying at a lot of different places. I remember applying to a design firm in Wyoming. I applied in Colorado, just a lot of places out west. We had no idea where we're gonna end up. And I remember looking up chord charts to a Bethel worship song, leading worship at Church at Red River, and I saw where they're hiring a graphic designer, and I sent it over to Hannah in a text. And I remember saying, like, "There's no way I would get this, but it's cool that they're hiring cheap." She was like, you've got to at least apply. And I was like, "I don't really want to." She pushed me. She pushed me to apply, and I sent in my portfolio and applied, and Amy Miller, who was creative lead at Bethel at the time, reached out to me. And I accepted a job and we moved out there. And I ended up working for Bethel Church and Bethel Music for a little over three years before ending up in Folsom with Jesus Culture. That's kind of the journey.
Eddie Rester 11:37
The journey. As you got into the Jesus Culture work, you do a lot of their communications, social media. I know that on your personal Instagram page, 124,000 followers. You understand the power of social media and its work in the world. I think we forget sometimes that 10 years ago--or 15 years ago, really, now, as time moves on--there was no social media. If you want to communicate things from a church, you put out a newsletter. Or maybe you printed some posters, first? I don't even...
Cody Hickman 12:13
If it was real big, a newspaper ad.
Eddie Rester 12:15
Yeah, real big, a newspaper ad.
Justin Posey 12:16
And bulletins.
Eddie Rester 12:19
So, communications in a church now is something different. Talk a little bit about that. And then I want us to really begin to talk about kind of the role of social media and really how we, as followers of Jesus, utilize social media. I think that's a struggle for the church and for followers of Jesus.
Justin Posey 12:39
Yeah, social media is a very powerful tool that is at our disposal. And I mean, just statistically speaking, in 2005, only 5% of the world was using social media, and today it's hovering around 50% of the entire world is plugged in somehow on some network, and averaging around two and a half hours a day, you know, which is kind of crazy. I mean, you think about the things that you do throughout your day. What else are you spending two and a half hours on daily?
Justin Posey 13:19
So, it's a really, really big deal in our world, like, it's where people are spending most of their time. As followers of Jesus, as people who are trying to reach people preach the gospel, we have to go where people are. It is in this digital, this crazy digital world that people are living in right now.
Eddie Rester 13:44
And I just, you know, I remember sitting beside somebody who showed me, for the very first time, YouTube. I remember when I saw YouTube the first time, 2005. I remember the guy's name: David McDonald, he's pastor at Westwinds in Michigan. And I thought it was the coolest thing ever, but I didn't understand why anybody would ever... how anybody would ever really, really use that. But then we got cell phones, and it just kind of multiplier effect for us in the way that it changed how we encounter--all of us--encounter the world. Two and a half hours a day. That's impressive.
Cody Hickman 14:20
Yeah, two and a half hours a day. I mean, you've done this with some groups of parents here at the church here, gone through and taught parents, that "hey, there's this thing that'll show you the screen time." And it is depressing to look at the screen time thing.
Chris McAlilly 14:32
I don't want to look at it.
Cody Hickman 14:33
It's bad.
Cody Hickman 14:34
Just don't look at it.
Chris McAlilly 14:34
It comes up, every once in a while. I think there was one of those updates on the Apple phone where they just put that in front of you. I turned that off as fast as I could.
Eddie Rester 14:41
Every Sunday. Every Sunday morning, mine pops up, and I gotta tell you the first Sunday of the quarantine when it popped up: "Your screen time is up 87%." I was like...
Justin Posey 14:55
Wow.
Eddie Rester 14:55
Yeah. That was...
Chris McAlilly 14:57
That's a lot of time, Eddie. Do we need an intervention, man?
Eddie Rester 15:01
It's fallen since then, most weeks.
Chris McAlilly 15:04
I wonder, Justin, kind of what for folks who might not, I mean might have an awareness of how this kind of role would unfold, what does that actually look like? What do you do day to day? What are some of the ways in which you're functioning in that role, and how, I guess, how has it evolved through time, from the time at Bethel to what you're doing today?
Justin Posey 15:26
Yeah, it's interesting. When I was with Bethel, I was kind of on the other side of the fence. I was designing more and more creating content for social media and for a marketing team. And at Jesus Culture, I'm kind of on the opposite side. I'm scheduling, managing, requesting content, and really just strategizing high-level rollout plans for the many projects we have going on, whether it's from albums, music-related things, to local church.
Justin Posey 16:02
Like how, right now we're about to roll out kind of our plan for the rest of the year because we're not going to be able to meet in person until next year. We just kind of found out. And so we're working on kind of an online Zoom course plan, and so just strategizing, like, how do we get people to engage and participate through this online plan that we have? And so how do we communicate with people? Are we gonna reach them through social media, email, or are we going to text them? Call them on the phone? You know, anything communication-wise, we're, me and my team of two are strategizing how to roll out these objectives and these ideas that we have.
Chris McAlilly 16:51
We're, I think, every church in America I mean, I guess globally at the same time, I feel like that's one of the things that's different about you guys Is that you? This was something that you were doing before March 11. And maybe it's heightened for you. But I wonder, I think one of the tensions that I hear when I talk to pastors is--not just pastors, it's people who are doing, basically, any form of education, business, nonprofits, people that are trying to stay connected to the community--that they, I guess, we all kind of took for granted just the basic activity of coming to a place and gathering for a thing. That's so basic to our humanity.
Chris McAlilly 17:38
I think everybody started doing digital content creation at the same time in an amplified kind of way. But I wonder, and one of the tensions that I feel moving into the fall--it was kind of triage, and we're just trying to patch it together through Easter and into the summer.
Justin Posey 17:52
Mm hmm.
Chris McAlilly 17:52
As we move into the fall, it kind of feels more like, you know, just creating content for the sake of creating content. There's a lag that's there. I think people are fatigued by so much content. And
Justin Posey 18:05
Yep.
Chris McAlilly 18:05
and I think what we're trying to figure out is, similar to what y'all are doing, is not just creating content for its own sake, but how you create community. Talk a little bit more about that. How are you using digital or social platforms to not just put out awesome stuff
Eddie Rester 18:24
Information.
Chris McAlilly 18:25
Yeah, but just, you know, text or visuals or whatever, but actually try to build a community or a semblance of one.
Justin Posey 18:34
Yeah, I mean, the power of proximity is great, right? Like, I think everyone took for granted how powerful it is to gather together and physically be able to, like, you know, hug someone, touch someone and how much that contributes to your overall sense of being in a community. It's really powerful. And I would say, I don't want to butcher this statistic, but I know a lot of churches are experiencing a kind of a fallout now because it's a digital buffet. And anybody can go to any church because every service is online now.
Cody Hickman 19:16
Yep.
Justin Posey 19:17
So you have a lot of people tuning in to Elevation or, I mean, even us. You know, we've seen our numbers increase for church, but really what we're doing, our online church stream is for our local church, you know. It's geared for keeping our local church here engaged and connected. And that's the goal of our pastor, Banning Liebscher, and our leadership team is how do we keep our church engaged and connected when it feels like we can't physically engage with one another. And so some of the ways that we've been kind of working through this... So obviously we have ways to connect online. We have a lot of Zoom prayer meetings and just Zoom connects, phone calls, you know, anything digitally that you could do. Absolutely.
Justin Posey 20:17
And then we're also trying to just encourage people to gather and connect with neighbors or people that are close, you know, like, love yourself and love your neighbor, I think is a big thing. I mean, love God and love your neighbor. It's just a big thing that I think is gonna come back to the surface here and be a really focus. Like a big focal point is, like, "Who are my neighbors? Am I loving them? Am I connecting with them?" You know, they're in proximity with me, you know. By default, I can't get away from it. And so while we might not be able to be in close proximity to people at church, we are... there's no way to escape the proximity of our neighbors. And so I think it's forcing people to kind of look at what's close to them and connect with people that are close to them.
Cody Hickman 21:10
Yeah, I think we've seen
Justin Posey 21:11
Does that make sense?
Cody Hickman 21:12
Yeah, we've seen that around here, too. I mean, I think that's probably a global truth that people are feeling that. I think what I've seen is that... What's the next step after that feeling? Like we, okay, we want to connect, we want to, we realize we were taking this stuff for granted, but how do we do that right now? I mean, you know, Zoom meetings, we do that, too. Lots of folks are doing Zoom meetings. They're doing it, especially kids doing it with school, and now they're about to start back. They're going to be back in classes on Zoom a lot. And they're just kind of like Zoomed out of stuff. How do you connect? How do you have a deep, enriching connection with your neighbors when you can't be with your neighbors?
Justin Posey 21:32
[SIGH]
Eddie Rester 21:42
That's the sound we make when we think about it, so, I mean, yeah.
Cody Hickman 22:03
That's absolutely it. And Justin, I know from you, watching you kind of grow over the years and like you've just always had, like, a knack for social media. I was telling Chris and Eddie... Do you remember Pure Volume?
Eddie Rester 22:18
We all remember Pour Volume.
Cody Hickman 22:20
You don't know what Pure Volume is, Eddie.
Eddie Rester 22:21
I owned all their albums, their cassettes
Justin Posey 22:24
Wow.
Cody Hickman 22:25
Yep. He has no idea what he's talking about. So Pure Volume, for those of you who don't know,
Eddie Rester 22:29
Do we... do we want to know?
Cody Hickman 22:30
Yeah man, it was like where all the bands put their music. It was a social band site back then.
Eddie Rester 22:34
Ohhh. I thought it was a band.
Cody Hickman 22:34
And I remember the first time I saw Justin, like, just take this leap, and social world was there. Do you remember this, Justin? You got put on, like, the front page of Pure Volume with your stuff.
Justin Posey 22:46
Yeah, it was wild.
Cody Hickman 22:46
It was crazy, right? And, like, you've just had a knack for it. And then when you moved down to Shreveport, you know, your Instagram following started taking off, but for you and I haven't ever asked you this specifically, but from what I could see, from my perspective, was that point of the social media for you was always to move to in-person connection. And you did that with your community hangouts. So that part was important. And so you use this tool to get to that. Is that right? I mean, did I see that right?
Justin Posey 23:19
Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely correct. I mean, it's hard to apply that in pandemic, quarantine mode, but social media should always be an on-ramp to make in-person connection. So like, it should always turn this online transaction into a real-life transaction. It should be a starting place to create real friendships.
Justin Posey 23:43
And, you know, I'll be the first one to say, like, in the beginning days of Instagram, it was all about building community and connecting with people that were kind of doing the same thing you were. They might not, you know, believe, agree with everything that you're doing, but like we all had a commonality. And that's why we had these meetups and these hangouts. I made some of my longtime best friends just through, like, Instagram meetups. Like we still connect today and hang out today, and it's crazy to think that an app led us to one another. But these are things that you could be missing out on, if you just live in the app and you don't turn these digital connects into real-life transactions and real-life relationships.
Cody Hickman 24:32
I turned a digital platform into a marriage, man. I made that work. [LAUGHTER]
Justin Posey 24:38
You got experience.
Cody Hickman 24:39
That's right.
Eddie Rester 24:41
You know, I hear that and then I feel like--and maybe this is the disconnect even that we're struggling with as a church--trying to build community through social media is that now so much of social media is not about constructing community as much as it is destructing friendships and relationships and community. And maybe that's part of, just as I listen to this, part of the struggle we're having is we're going upstream right now with what the rest of the world is doing, and what we even, I think sometimes, contribute to on social media.
Justin Posey 25:18
Yeah, it's all about audience building instead of community building these days. And I mean, the platforms are just out to make a buck and get advertisers to spend money and reach people. You know, that's their goal. And obviously, to use social media, you're playing into that, right? You have to, you have to play by the rules of these platforms. And I think that's where we have to be careful to strike a balance of how much are we going to put in. Obviously we need to be here to reach people, but like, let's get on here and figure out how to get our people to connect in our town, whether that's through Facebook groups, or Instagram groups, or, you know, these Zoom meetings, it should always be just a touch place or a starting point to bring about, like, kind of this real face-to-face connection, you know.
Chris McAlilly 26:20
How are you feeling about that? I felt like given, I mean, if... talking about... it sounds like you've been in this game for a while. I mean, how is it? Are you holding up okay? You know what I mean? It's like, it's one of these realities that I feel this just over the, you know, for myself, it's like, it's the tension between using the tool or being used by the tool, you know. Being shaped by the tool. And I think it's a fine balance. I guess, how are you feeling about your kind of personal engagement with it? ... Or I guess another way of framing it would be how do you cultivate the kind of character that you would need to do it well?
Justin Posey 27:12
Yeah, that's such a great question. I've been on a long journey with social media. It's been a long journey. And in the beginning, it was fun. We were building community, making friends. And, you know, it kind of just became this thing where it was all about building audiences, which is, you know....
Justin Posey 27:34
Building community is more participation, right? Like, let's just, let's define it real quick: "community," defined as a feeling of fellowship with others as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals. You know, it requires participation or encourages participation. And today, I really feel like social media is all about building audiences, which "audience" is defined as the assembled spectators or listeners at a public event. And it just, it just doesn't require or encourage participation.
Justin Posey 28:04
And that's what we're up against, you know, like we're up against the system just wanting to build numbers and likes and an audience for these brands and for these people. I think the church just has to be really careful to not fall into the fame of it all and the glamour of it all and use it for building community, like actually reaching people and building community.
Eddie Rester 28:40
You know, I remember, there was a time when Instagram was going to get rid of the like feature. So you
Cody Hickman 28:45
They tested it in other places.
Eddie Rester 28:47
and then it, they
Chris McAlilly 28:48
Too helpful.
Eddie Rester 28:48
too helpful. Because, you know, that was, that would be a way to de-emphasize the building of an audience. I think. But I think something in humanity says, you know, "We don't want that. We want to build an audience. We want to gather spectators of our lives."
Cody Hickman 29:08
It's your measures of success.
Eddie Rester 29:10
Right. Yeah.
Justin Posey 29:11
Yeah. I mean, even getting rid of the--which they have. They've rolled it out somewhat. I mean, you can see there's no likes on some profiles and others, they're counting it. But you still have the followers and you still have, it's still a numbers game, you know, and if numbers didn't matter, then they wouldn't be there.
Eddie Rester 29:30
Right. Let's push a little bit more into how we utilize this tool. It's a tool, like you said, it's there. So if you were going to talk to a group of people like, through a podcast even maybe, what would you say: Here's some things that as you engage people to build community online, think about these things. Maybe here's a group of things. I would say, "do these things," even.
Justin Posey 30:04
Yeah, it's an interesting time that we're living in, especially in regards to just the everything that's going on in the world right now. And social media because that's kind of where it plays out and where people feel safe to post about it, post their ideas and their beliefs.
Justin Posey 30:27
And I think for me, there are a couple verses that I just try to, I try to model my life after, you know. Like, I'm like, if I'm going to post, I need to make sure that it's not from a place of anger, that it's not, you know, that it's meaningful, that it's impactful. So like, James 1:19-20: "Understand this, my beloved brothers and sisters. Let everyone be quick to hear, be a careful, thoughtful listener, slow to speak, a speaker of carefully chosen words, and slow to anger, patient, reflective, forgiving; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God or the standard of behavior which He requires from us." That's the Amplified Version.
Justin Posey 30:28
I just, I really try to make sure that when we post or when we talk about anything, that we carefully choose our words, that we're not quick to reply to someone in a snarky or sarcastic way, and that, at the end of the day, we're adding value, we're building the kingdom, right? Is the message or idea I'm sharing divisive? Is it creating unity? Is it dividing? Am I pointing people to Jesus, the truth of Jesus, or just my opinion? You know, what's my heart motivation for using social media: to build myself up or this brand up, or is it to build the kingdom? Am I adding temporary value or eternal value? And these are things that I'm just constantly wrestling with as I post things to social media.
Chris McAlilly 32:15
I think one of the things about your stuff that I admire is clearly you have a love of aesthetic beauty. And, you know, I think oftentimes in the church we talk about, you know, Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. And we talk about kind of the moral life of Christ, the ethical dimension of the kingdom that ,you know, we're to do these things and not these other things.
Chris McAlilly 32:44
I think one of the things that Cody and I talk about a whole lot is just the dimension of God's beauty, the glory of the Lord that can be perceived and that, you know, I think, especially at moments when I felt distant from Christ or the church, I didn't really need somebody to, you know, lay out a long argument. You know what I mean? Or even like tell me this or that or the other thing. I wish you would talk a little bit about how did you come to love aesthetic beauty and see that as a way to to point people to the kingdom?
Justin Posey 33:22
Wow. I, yeah, I don't think I've ever actually sat down and thought about where it kind of originated from. I mean, Every good gift comes from above, right? [LAUGHS]
Cody Hickman 33:38
I've seen that in you. I mean, you've, I would say from my, just, like experience with you, it's nature. Even in Mississippi, hot, humid, gross summer in Mississippi, like... like we spent time together in nature and camping. And from my perspective, that's where I see it growing from you is from that, that leads to, you know... then comes the design element and all that other stuff. But I see it stemming from nature for you.
Justin Posey 34:12
Yeah, I mean, I, I definitely experience God in a totally different way when I'm in the middle of nature on a lake, you know, miles from the nearest town. I would say probably most men that have ever been there could relate and would agree. I love nature. I love just how I can spend time with the Lord out there and just the beauty that encompasses just everything. How quiet it is. You can just think so much clearer.
Justin Posey 34:44
Absolutely nature has played a huge role in my aesthetic and, like, how I view the world and point people to Jesus. I think the whole idea of even starting to take photos is kind of a... just the desire to document life and not forget moments. You know, like, I remember, I bought an iPhone--I don't know, it was one of the older ones, like 3g, probably one of the first ones. I don't even remember--before going out on the road with Drew, on that last little stint we did with music, because I wanted to document what was happening. I didn't want to forget, like, these beautiful moments that were happening. And I sucked, guys. I mean, I wish I could find those photos. You talk about, like Nashville filter built into the Instagram app.
Cody Hickman 35:36
Yeah, let it fix everything.
Justin Posey 35:36
Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, it just, every photo with the border. It was... you know, I sucked, but it didn't matter. I didn't need people to affirm what I was doing because I was doing it for me. Like I, I wanted to do this. I love doing it. It's a passion of mine. Now I... yeah, go ahead.
Cody Hickman 36:01
I've seen kind of that. I mean, I guess these things kind of tie together. So this love of aesthetic beauty and how that connects and then how that ties in with social media. One of the things that I've seen, you know, even at, you know... We're not a big church. We're in North Mississippi. We're maybe big for this area, but we're not huge. But when the pandemic started, I've had calls from tons of churches in our state and some other other places that, you know, weren't doing social media before. They certainly weren't streaming services, or any of this stuff, who were suddenly thrown into, "oh, this is the only way we can do this." And what they see is they see a Jesus Culture or a Bethel or an Elevation or even some of our stuff, and they're like, "I can't reproduce that. I don't have the skill set. I don't have the eye for it. I don't have the aesthetic side of things like... there's nothing for me to even do on social media because I can't compete with that."
Cody Hickman 37:00
And I think that's one of the things that we need to work on, I guess even for ourselves, but the I've heard you talking about, too, is why are we doing it? Is this to build our own platform, to grow our numbers? Or is it a tool to reach our local community? And so that's the advice I've given to people like "Hey, don't try to recreate this thing or be this or that. Like, if you have an iPhone, and that's just all you're going to do, if you're going to use the Nashville filter, if that's all you can do? Use the Nashville filter and talk to your people."
Justin Posey 37:32
Yeah,
Chris McAlilly 37:33
I think that... Go for it, Justin.
Justin Posey 37:37
I was just going to agree. You know, I hopped on Facebook the other day, and you have to have, like, a personal Facebook account to manage pages, and that's the only reason that I have one. I hopped on. I'm just friends with some people back in Mississippi and the church that I grew up in, Euclatubba Baptist Church,
Eddie Rester 37:57
Wait, say that again.
Justin Posey 37:58
It's a mouthful.
Cody Hickman 37:59
Euclatubba
Eddie Rester 38:00
I don't even want to... I don't even want to try to say that.
Justin Posey 38:03
They were
Cody Hickman 38:05
You would... you would miss, badly.
Justin Posey 38:06
[LAUGHTER] They were streaming. You know. They were streaming their worship and it was just a pastor with a guitar, really poor audio quality. I think it was just with a phone. And it wasn't the best, guys, but honestly? I found just an emotion arise. I was tearing up, listening to some old hymnals from... like, I was encountering Jesus in a way that was just totally unexpected. Through this form, this fashion. It wasn't overly produced. It was just a phone, on a pastor with a guitar. And Jesus meets people where they are. Jesus doesn't need your production. He doesn't need your fancy graphics. He's just out to connect with people. He just wants your heart, you know, and so he's gonna use whoever's willing.
Chris McAlilly 39:04
I think the unexpected bit to me is very important. I just, I feel like Jesus, the way I encounter, or the way that I see folks encounter the risen Christ, or the power of the Holy Spirit often is, you can kind of get into a rut, and it doesn't matter where you are--you know, high or low production value. You know, I was a pastor at a little country church, when I was a student pastor, that is no longer there. They had to shut down. But that experience was quite different. The worship there was quite different, but there, every once in a while, there would be a moment when something would break through, you know. And I think sometimes I see that. I've, you know, you worship in places where there is not a flaw, you know, there's not a single mistake that is made.
Chris McAlilly 40:01
And I think you know it can be both sides. It's like, I remember somebody in seminary, one of my mentors, said "Dear Lord, please let something happen today that was not in the bulletin," which is I think a way of saying God sometimes works through kind of unexpected moments or surprises. And I think it's a beautiful thought to just kind of stumble on to
Eddie Rester 40:25
Stumble on to Jesus.
Chris McAlilly 40:27
yeah, stumble on to Jesus that, you know, back home there's something that kind of connects. The thread there that I think is interesting is memory. You know, there's, you know, why would you want to take those photographs on that journey? You want to document and kind of remember that beautiful moment. Or you know, stumble... you know, there's something that leads you back to your home church, and I wonder what they're doing online. That there's a kind of... Memory is very powerful. And the memories of, the beautiful memories, of what God has done in the past. The way I think about that in the Old Testament is where, you know, they come to a certain place, and God has been at work and somebody builds an altar and puts, like, six stones on top of one another and keeps moving.
Chris McAlilly 40:27
And I feel like in some ways, you know, there's social media, and at its best it's building community, I guess at its, you know... it can also be used to kind of, you know, promote your platform or whatever. But I think I do see people documenting memory, you know, the memories. And I think that's one of the things that's, you know, can be very, very powerful.
Cody Hickman 41:34
Yeah, everything I post now is basically something of my kids or family related so that it'll pop up next year.
Eddie Rester 41:41
Pop back up. Yeah. And, I, you know,
Justin Posey 41:42
Yep.
Eddie Rester 41:42
I, you know, when Timehop came out, at first I thought that was the most ridiculous thing. Why would people want stuff to pop? Why would they want to reshare?
Chris McAlilly 41:51
It's 'cause people don't make photo albums anymore.
Eddie Rester 41:53
I know. But now that I understand. Nobody has photos printed anymore. Nobody... very rarely do we have anything printed at the Walgreens. But it is... Cody's bringing up...
Cody Hickman 42:06
I have a 957 day streak on Timehop.
Eddie Rester 42:09
I don't know what that means.
Cody Hickman 42:11
That means I've looked over it every day
Eddie Rester 42:13
for 957.
Cody Hickman 42:13
That's the only thing that I will look at every day because, like, it's because of the memories though. It's because it shows me my kids two years ago, when Brooks, you know, his hair was a little bit shorter. And he talked like a baby still. And that's my favorite platform, that I guess it's not a platform. It's not really social. It just shows you stuff. But memory is absolutely the thing for me.
Eddie Rester 42:37
It'll be interesting as organizations, churches go back and look, I think, at what during this pandemic season, what did we offer. And maybe even for all of us, as we look at what we post through election seasons, when it pops back up a year later. Is that who I really was? Is that who God really needed me to be in that moment?
Cody Hickman 43:03
Yeah.
Chris McAlilly 43:04
Justin, talk about
Justin Posey 43:06
That's a good point.
Chris McAlilly 43:07
building what you love on your website? That's something that you put forward. How has that become important for you? And just kind of, I think as an encouragement to people as well, as we kind of wrap up today, you know, how would you encourage someone if they're trying to figure this stuff out? Even you know, if they're on a staff or just for their personal lives?
Justin Posey 43:32
Yeah, you know, that's on my website because it's just, it's been, like, this kind of... It's just where my life is right now. You know, like, I've come to realize that you're going to build what you love. At the end of the day, you might go to a job nine to five, but you're going to come home and build what you love. Whether that's family, whether that's some hobby that you have on the side, or it could be your nine to five job, you know. You're building what you love. Whether you know it or not, at the end of the day, you're just going to build what you love.
Justin Posey 44:09
And so I, I love connecting with people. I love connecting with brands and just individuals and saying, "Hey, what do you love?" Like, what is it that you love to do? Maybe it's even an aspect of their job that they've forgotten about that they really love to do. And I just say go build that. Go do that. And at the end of the day, if what we're building Jesus is not a part of that, why are we building it? If we're not building it with Jesus, if we're not building it with the kingdom in mind, then then we're wasting our time. Right? I would rather have a worship service that is streamed from an iPhone that was just a pastor with the guitar. If I'm going to encounter Jesus, Jesus is there and He's in it, it doesn't matter what it is. I want to build that.
Cody Hickman 45:04
Yeah.
Justin Posey 45:05
You know?
Cody Hickman 45:05
Yeah. Go ahead.
Justin Posey 45:08
So. Go ahead.
Cody Hickman 45:09
Haha. I think kind of along those lines one thing I want to... I feel like I would be angry at myself if we didn't talk about this a little bit. For anybody listening who's, you know we're all in the pandemic, but anybody who's in some position where they're trying to figure out what does social content look like for their church--and we hit on this a little bit--but I think I want to know from you what have you seen that's actually positive that has come out of this on social media and what do you hope that we can when this is all over--whenever that happens--what's a good thing that we can carry forward or maybe even something that we want to drop off of when we get on the other side of it?
Justin Posey 45:56
Yeah, I think in the middle of it, just what I have to remind myself, that God's not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, of love, and a sound mind. And so, if I'm operating from a place of fear, you know, that's when I'm... that's when deception can creep in. Like I'm susceptible to deception, and I'm forgetting, like, the goodness and faithfulness of God, right? If I'm just walking around in fear, there's so much, like, on social media right now, just a lot of misinformation, disinformation. A lot of people don't know what's true.
Justin Posey 46:36
You know, I did a poll on my personal Instagram the other day, I just wanted to know, like, how many people were really confident about things happening with COVID-19. It was an overwhelming "No." Like, hundreds of responses. People are just so confused. And I think it's so important that as we walk with people, as we're walking with people, to remember that nobody knows, like, what's happening. Everyone's confused. And so we don't need to yell at people. We just, we need to love them. We need to walk with them. And that applies on social media and that applies, you know, when we're hanging out with our neighbor in the front yard.
Cody Hickman 47:19
Six feet apart.
Justin Posey 47:19
I just want to make sure that... Do what?
Cody Hickman 47:22
Six feet apart.
Justin Posey 47:23
Six feet apart, of course. Of course. And just make sure that, like, when we're posting on social media, we're doing so with the kingdom mindset. You know, it's not, like, political, it's not religious. Just remember that God's control. You don't have to fear. We should be about the verse that I read in the beginning. Let me read it again. "Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy, dearly loved, clothe yourself with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, patience," Colossians 3:12. Maybe I didn't read that.
Eddie Rester 47:58
You did not read it.
Justin Posey 48:00
Here's another verse for you guys, another one that I just try to have in the back pocket when I'm thinking about posting something, you know. I want to be... I want to carry the fruit of the Spirit, right? Compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, patience. I want to make sure that I'm walking in that stuff as I'm walking with people, and I'm not just yelling a video at them, you know, that someone reposts it, that I haven't even really researched. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's social media, that's social media for you. It's just, I mean, I would encourage people--I might even get fired for saying this--I just want to encourage people to put the phone down for a while. You know, like stay connected to your church. But get, like, get off social media. You don't need to see the next video. You don't need to, you know, debunk something today. You just need to walk with people. That's how you know what's real and what's true. Yeah.
Eddie Rester 48:59
You don't have to fix everybody. Yeah. Thank you for your time today. We really appreciate you taking some time to help us think through these things here on The Weight, and we'll stick around after we say goodbye because I know there are more nicknames for Cody than what you've offered up that we probably need.
Cody Hickman 49:18
We don't need to go in any of that.
Chris McAlilly 49:20
Thanks, Justin.
Justin Posey 49:21
Thanks so much guys.
Eddie Rester 49:22
Be blessed. Thank you.
Justin Posey 49:23
It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Eddie Rester 49:24
[OUTRO] Thank you for listening today. Go ahead and follow us on Facebook and Twitter. And go ahead and hit the subscribe button on whatever platform you use to listen to podcasts.
Chris McAlilly 49:35
This wouldn't be possible without our partner, General Board of Higher Education in Ministry. We want to thank also our producer Cody Hickman. Follow us next week. We'll be back with another episode of The Weight. [END OUTRO]